ASW20 or LS6

"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."

That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended
from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and
airfoil. In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a
very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about
1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the
outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type
you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to
you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch.

Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are
world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of
the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a
performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a
version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence
than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be
addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit
comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and
trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something
real nice about having a little extra shoulder room!

-Kevin

On Jan 31, 1:28*am, KevinFinke wrote:
"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."

That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended
from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and
airfoil. *In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a
very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about
1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the
outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type
you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to
you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch.

Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are
world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of
the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a
performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a
version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence
than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be
addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit
comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and
trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something
real nice about having a little extra shoulder room!

-Kevin

Thanks for all the information, it has been a great help. I do plan to
sit in both before I make a decision

I did not mention that the ASW20 is the "B" model and has had the
wings refinished about 8 years ago. They only re-gelcoated the top
side and not the bottom side. the bottom side does have some gelcoat
cracking. I have not seen it yet to determine the condition of the
cracks. I do know that winglets were custom added at the same time
that the wings were refinished by the same company that did the
refinishing. From my conversations with the current owner of the LS6
the wings have been entirely regel coated a few years back (not sure
how long ago) but he does say that the gelcoat is in excellent
condition. Also it is the LS6A model. Both gliders have Cobra trailers
that appear to be in excellant condition

On Jan 30, 11:28*pm, KevinFinke wrote:
*In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship.

That glider was based at El Tiro, AZ, for a while. When the owner
told me it was an ASW-24 I wondered what he had been smoking until he
told be the history.

Andy

On 1/30/2011 10:28 PM, KevinFinke wrote:
"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."

That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended
from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and
airfoil. In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a
very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about
1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the
outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type
you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to
you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch.

You are correct, the Pegasus is not an ASW 20 with the flaps glued to
the wing. It does have the same wing area, bendiness, and the same
planform (at least, it appears to be the same), so I'd call it at least
a very close relative of the ASW 20. The one I flew felt just like my
ASW 20.

On the other hand, the ASW 19 and ASW 20 are very different gliders, and
it is a mistake to use the 19 as a stand-in for the handling of the ASW 20.

I'd love to look at SN2400 - that's new to me!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I owned an ASW 20F for some years which was ballasted to the aft C of G
limit ( the trim system isn't the greatest piece of design and forward C
of G just makes it worse) and it was a very docile forgiving glider. As
stated earlier the flap system is still the best ever devised which is
very comforting for field landings.
Having said that on the type discussion group Yahoo site there were
numerous posts suggesting that the later B and C models with the blown
wing are not as forgiving, although I have not flown either so can't
confirm if this is true.
As with all Schleicher products it is the quality of the refinish which
matters as the Vorgelat which they use is complete c**p and will have worn
out years ago.




At 04:15 31 January 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.

You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation
for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue
it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.

And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of
the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher

aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built
in France.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 1/31/2011 4:57 AM, Nigel Cottrell wrote:
I owned an ASW 20F for some years which was ballasted to the aft C of G
limit ( the trim system isn't the greatest piece of design and forward C
of G just makes it worse) and it was a very docile forgiving glider. As
stated earlier the flap system is still the best ever devised which is
very comforting for field landings.
Having said that on the type discussion group Yahoo site there were
numerous posts suggesting that the later B and C models with the blown
wing are not as forgiving, although I have not flown either so can't
confirm if this is true.

I'm under the opposite impression! I found it very forgiving. My
personal experience is 1500 hours in an ASW 20C and never a stall, spin,
or even an incipient spin that wasn't intentional. That's with the CG
about 75% of the range.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Jan 30, 8:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

You really can't go wrong with either one. "20's have greater landing
flap capability and more available performance increasing options than
the '6 but the real deciding factor for you will be condition and how
long till major attention will be needed to the finish.
Likeluy both have good trailers, but that is also a consideration.
'20's , when flown in a reasonable CG position , and with modern seals
on the wings, are quite benign in the stall - spin issue.
Good luck with your choice.
UH

On Jan 30, 5:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

I have owned and loved both, The 6A has a soft wing, like the 20, but
you will find the 20B wing to be stiff, but then it has a disc brake.
The 6 has a sweet spot at about 65 knots that feels like she will go
forever. The wing on the 6 is attached at zero incidence and that
makes the nose a bit high when flying slow (on tow or when
thermalling), not a problem, just feels different at first. If I were
making the decision, I'd go for the 6, if the finish was good.
JJ

On Jan 30, 6:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

I've flown only the LS-6. I'm 6'0" 215 with fairly broad shoulders,
long torso, and loved the snug but comfortable fit. Super sweet flying
ship. All other things equal I'd probably buy a 6 over a 20 if I had
the chance, but I've not flown a 20. With a glider over 15 years old
I'd likely buy the glider with the best finish.

At 17:46 31 January 2011, Jim Archer wrote:
On Jan 30, 6:06=A0pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am
6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. =A0All that being
said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

I've flown only the LS-6. I'm 6'0" 215 with fairly broad shoulders,
long torso, and loved the snug but comfortable fit. Super sweet flying
ship. All other things equal I'd probably buy a 6 over a 20 if I had
the chance, but I've not flown a 20. With a glider over 15 years old
I'd likely buy the glider with the best finish.


You don't say how much experience you have, but both the ASW 20 and LS6
are flapped, and not suitable for low hours pilots.I have flown
neither,but I think if you spin either your first action is to select
negative flap.Otherwise your risk exceeding max flap speed,and if you
don't rip them off,as soon as you land you are in for an expensive trip
to the repair man.
Buy an LS8,put an extra 1000hrs in your log book and think again.
If you are a 1000hr pilot already I take back the sactimonious comments
,but remember,this is an open forum and many of your readers have more
ambition than experience.
Jon