Ottawa Tie-down

"KRead" writes:

I flew over Carp (CYRP) the other day and they have a new row of
hangers going up. Not sure what the cost is, but hangers are a must
for our winters, IMHO.

Last year was my first winter flying -- I keep my Warrior outside (and
as far as I can tell, it's lived outside since it was imported into
Canada [Alberta] in 1988). At first, I had to pull it into the
maintenance hangar a couple of times to get ice off the stabilator,
but once I bought a stabilator cover (to go with the wing covers,
canopy cover, and cowl cover I already had), winter flying with an
outside tie-down became almost as easy as summer flying -- just a few
minutes extra time for covering and uncovering, and if below about -10
or -15 degC, a call to the flying club to have the plane towed to the
apron and plugged in the night before (the OFC is considering setting
up some new tie-downs with electricity, so that problem would
disappear as well).

I'd love a hangar, of course, especially a heated one, but it would
significantly raise my cost of flying. If I didn't have an
entry-level plane, it might be worth the extra money to protect my
investment, but in that case I'd need a partner to share expenses
anyway.


All the best,


David

David Megginson wrote:

I had to pull it into the maintenance hangar a couple of times
to get ice off the stabilator

What scares me about airplanes parked outside in the
winter is the ice you can't see, inside.

Also, you have to be very careful about the seals on gas caps
on an aircraft parked outside - easy to get water in the tanks,
and it doesn't always immediately settle to the bottom. This
is a concern if you fly at higher altitudes (ie below 0C).

I'd love a hangar, of course, especially a heated one, but it would
significantly raise my cost of flying.

Parking an aircraft outside significantly increases the
depreciation and maintenance costs. The paint, plexiglas,
interior, radios, even the tires take a beating from the UV
and heat in the summer.

You don't so much need a heated hangar as what we used to
call a carport. In California, it is quite common to see
rows of GA aircraft parked under metal structures with roofs
but no walls. Keeps the UV (and most of the rain) off them.
No need for heat, of course in California! :-)

--
ATP www.pittspecials.com

(Andrew Boyd) writes:

[Thanks for the info -- it's good stuff to think about.]

What scares me about airplanes parked outside in the
winter is the ice you can't see, inside.

I remove the wheel fairings for the winter, and it's easy to see
inside the tail section of my Warrior (and, of course, into the bottom
of the cowling, in the unlikely event ice could stay there once the
engine started). Where else might I look?

Also, you have to be very careful about the seals on gas caps on an
aircraft parked outside - easy to get water in the tanks, and it
doesn't always immediately settle to the bottom. This is a concern
if you fly at higher altitudes (ie below 0C).

Wing covers take care of that (it wouldn't make sense to keep a plane
outside without wing covers in the winter, unless you love scraping
ice [and paint] for a couple of hours before every flight). I just
ordered a slick new set for about USD 250.00, since I'm tired of the
old blue tarp-like ones with bungees and hooks.

The bigger danger for water in the system is condensation -- that's
why I'm pretty religious about refilling my tanks after every flight
in the winter.

(Note that you don't have to fly high to get below 0 degC in the
winter in Ottawa; in fact, you don't have to fly at all. 0 degC would
be an abnormally warm day in January or February, and you'd probably
see a few younger people out without jackets, at least if the sun were
shining.)

I'd love a hangar, of course, especially a heated one, but it would
significantly raise my cost of flying.

Parking an aircraft outside significantly increases the depreciation
and maintenance costs. The paint, plexiglas, interior, radios, even
the tires take a beating from the UV and heat in the summer.

I keep a canvas canopy cover on year-round, so the plexiglass, and
interior do pretty well (it also protects me against any leaks in the
door seal). The paint is a real issue, but my plane has been kept
outside for over a decade since the last paint job (I'll have to check
the logs) through Ontario and Alberta winters, and aside from a few
chips and scratches (caused by stones or careless line staff), the
paint looks very good -- it's a shame, because I don't like the colour
scheme that much.

You don't so much need a heated hangar as what we used to
call a carport.

Actually, the heating is one thing that might be important. I do
worry about the effect of the cold ( -20 degC) on my the avionics and
gyros when they first start up, and a heated hangar would help that
quite a bit. I'm thinking about some kind of small, portable heater
for this year, so that I can warm up the instruments for 10 minutes
before I start up -- does anyone have suggestions?

In California, it is quite common to see rows of GA aircraft parked
under metal structures with roofs but no walls. Keeps the UV (and
most of the rain) off them. No need for heat, of course in
California! :-)

That's a lot of money, though. Right now, I'm paying CAD 780.00 (USD
550.00) per year to tie down outside, and I could get away with less
if I moved to a smaller airport like Rockcliffe. I might not pay
quite that much per *month* for a hangar, but I bet it would be close.

It's hard to see how I could save several thousand dollars per year in
maintenance and paint by putting a simple plane like my Warrior in a
hangar, since that's more than my entire maintenance cost and paint
reserve to start with (again, I agree that a fancier plane with
fancier avionics would certainly justify the cost).

When I was outside, I often got water inside the stabilator on my Piper.
In the summer it drains out when you push the yoke forward. In the winter
however, it can freeze inside, which will substantially alter your CG and
may cause flutter problems by unbalancing the tail surface. Don't fly if
there is ice inside the stabilator.


David Megginson wrote:

(Andrew Boyd) writes:

[Thanks for the info -- it's good stuff to think about.]

What scares me about airplanes parked outside in the
winter is the ice you can't see, inside.

I remove the wheel fairings for the winter, and it's easy to see
inside the tail section of my Warrior (and, of course, into the bottom
of the cowling, in the unlikely event ice could stay there once the
engine started). Where else might I look?

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka writes:

When I was outside, I often got water inside the stabilator on my Piper.
In the summer it drains out when you push the yoke forward. In the winter
however, it can freeze inside, which will substantially alter your CG and
may cause flutter problems by unbalancing the tail surface. Don't fly if
there is ice inside the stabilator.

The winter stab covers I use form a fairly tight seal, but I'll still
pay attention. Thanks.


All the best,


David

In a previous article, David Megginson said:
Ray Andraka writes:
When I was outside, I often got water inside the stabilator on my Piper.
In the summer it drains out when you push the yoke forward. In the winter
however, it can freeze inside, which will substantially alter your CG and
may cause flutter problems by unbalancing the tail surface. Don't fly if
there is ice inside the stabilator.

The winter stab covers I use form a fairly tight seal, but I'll still
pay attention. Thanks.

Our flying club has had its planes outside for 40 years. For the last
10-15 years or so, it's been all PA28s and PA32s. We've never had a
problem with freezing inside the stabs, but we use stab covers. A bigger
problem in my experience is the stab cover holding the water that melts
off the stab against the bottom of the stab where it refreezes. You've
got to be careful to get that all off.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
-- Groucho Marx, 1890-1977

(Paul Tomblin) writes:

Our flying club has had its planes outside for 40 years. For the last
10-15 years or so, it's been all PA28s and PA32s. We've never had a
problem with freezing inside the stabs, but we use stab covers. A bigger
problem in my experience is the stab cover holding the water that melts
off the stab against the bottom of the stab where it refreezes. You've
got to be careful to get that all off.

My stab covers have quite a few gromits in the bottom to let the water
out -- I didn't notice any problems last winter, but I'll keep an eye
on it.


All the best,


David

When I was a member of the Stockholm Flying Club, the planes
there had mains electric sockets on the inside and outside. On the
outside you plugged an extension lead in, on the inside, you plugged
in a (car) fan heater with a thermostat. While the plane was in the
unheated tent like hangar, you left the heater switched on in the plane.
Not only did it keep the avionics and gyros from freezing, it kept the
cabin dry and also lovely and warm when you came to fly it.

Paul

"David Megginson" wrote in message
...
Actually, the heating is one thing that might be important. I do
worry about the effect of the cold ( -20 degC) on my the avionics and
gyros when they first start up, and a heated hangar would help that
quite a bit. I'm thinking about some kind of small, portable heater
for this year, so that I can warm up the instruments for 10 minutes
before I start up -- does anyone have suggestions?

Paul Sengupta wrote:

you left the heater switched on in the plane.
Not only did it keep the avionics and gyros from freezing

Those car heaters are great. Put one (or even two) in
the engine compartment with a sleeping bag on top, and
after an hour, the engine will start much better. I
worry about metal on metal during cold starts ... the
multi-vis 15w50 oil makes a big difference, too. Less
likely to congeal in the oil cooler, also.

P.S. It's generally ok to let avionics get cold - they
produce their own heat (which _is_ a problem for electronics.

However, years ago I learned an expensive lesson one
rather chilly (-30C) February morning about preheating
gyros - I killed a really nice attitude indicator. Now
I preheat the cabin, too.

P.P.S. If you're going to fly in cold temps (eg below -25C)
take a look at your soaring EGTS at WOT - a richer mixture
might be an idea to extend the life of your exhaust valves,
as your engine attempts to produce more than it's rated
horsepower.

--
ATP www.pittspecials.com