Launch Order

Originally Posted by vaughn[_3_]

"bildan" wrote in message
...
As a one-time instructor/ride pilot, I've seen it happen many times.
The happiest first-time customers were those who got the early and
late flights.

True. Much of this can be helped by proper diplomacy and by managing
expectations from the start. I used to tell ride customers that soaring is
supposed to be a fun, relaxing experience, not something regulated by a clock.
My favorite line: "When you come to a gliderport, don't have anything more
accurate than a calendar strapped to your wrist".

Same goes for students:. Remind them that they only pay for time in the air,
but there is much to be learned by watching (and assisting) on the ground.

Vaughn

I could not agree more about reminding students that much is to be learned by watching and assisting on the ground. While I was taking lessons I would show up early, bring my books, hang out at the launch line and study, chase rope, hook up, watch, listen and learn. Can you believe that there are people with licenses who can't properly hook up a Schweizer?

The Japanese students who come here to learn to fly bring a different work ethic than the American students. It's observable to a high degree...they work as a team. We can learn a lot by watching them.

Walt

On May 30, 11:19*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. *I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. * If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. *I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. *Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. * *Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

The owner of the tug obviously wants to keep his investment in gliders
and instructors working. Your post says this is is a commercial
operation, not a club or a charity, so the answer seems clear:
Business class. If you, mr. private glider, want a tow Right Now,
thereby idling my investment in a training glider, instructor, and
lowering my throughput of students, go for it, that will be $80. If
you want to pay $40, wait until the students rentals and rides are
done. Now everybody's happy.

(If the private gliders are still unhappy, start a club. Pitch in to
buy a towplane and lease it back to the commercial operator. Now you
get to go first in "your" towplane. I bet the occasional $80 tows will
soon start to look cheap!)

John Cochrane

At 22:17 30 May 2011, John Cochrane wrote:

The owner of the tug obviously wants to keep his investment in gliders
and instructors working. Your post says this is is a commercial
operation, not a club or a charity, so the answer seems clear:
Business class. If you, mr. private glider, want a tow Right Now,
thereby idling my investment in a training glider, instructor, and
lowering my throughput of students, go for it, that will be $80. If
you want to pay $40, wait until the students rentals and rides are
done. Now everybody's happy.

Well, you can't ever make everybody happy. But this is
certainly a wonderful solution, and at least answers
everybody's objections. (And you know what - there
would be a certain number of folks willing to pay the $80.)

Jim Beckman

Glassholes??? It's not the construction of the glider that makes the
personality of the pilot...

I tow at a commercial operation three days a week and I don't know of any
specific rules for who gets towed first. It's always been first come, first
served. On the weekends there's a club operation and they provide their own
tow plane for members only. If there's a large queue, many times club
members will pay a bit extra for a commercial tow just to get into the air
at the time of their choice.

I used to fly and tow at a club in another state. The rule there was that,
if there was a long queue, you could pull out another tow plane (we had
three), make 10 tows, and pull your glider to the front of the launch line.
Yes, people complained when I did that, though they didn't complain about my
shortening the line.

OBTW, when I pull my glider out to fly, it's made of glass...


"Walt Connelly" wrote in message
...

Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

First come, first served - if you are ready - seems to work best.

At commercial sites I have worked and flown at, launching a grid of XC
(or local racers) at a specified time also works - the commercial
instructors and students get a midday break, and the private owners
get a quick launch.

My club, unfortunately, uses a "first to sign up on the towsheet gets
priority" system that drives me crazy - since you can show up early,
move gliders out, clean canopies, help a newby, but forget to sign up
until late morning - then when you push out your glider get told "wait
in line - Joe Blow is in front of you" even though good old Joe just
showed up, signed up, went to breakfast, and is still trying to figure
out how to open his canopy.

Seriously, the tow lines fortunately (or unfortunately) are rarely
long enough to cause a problem, but the system is fundamentally
flawed.

Of course, this is the same club where the first person out will place
his glider at the very back edge of the runway (gotta have every foot
available, you know...), thereby preventing anyone else from gridding
behind him.

As we all know, the rate of change in glider club procedures can be
glacial....

Kirk
66

Originally Posted by kirk.stant

First come, first served - if you are ready - seems to work best.



My club, unfortunately, uses a "first to sign up on the towsheet gets
priority" system that drives me crazy - since you can show up early,
move gliders out, clean canopies, help a newby, but forget to sign up
until late morning - then when you push out your glider get told "wait
in line - Joe Blow is in front of you" even though good old Joe just
showed up, signed up, went to breakfast, and is still trying to figure
out how to open his canopy.

Seriously, the tow lines fortunately (or unfortunately) are rarely
long enough to cause a problem, but the system is fundamentally
flawed.

Of course, this is the same club where the first person out will place
his glider at the very back edge of the runway (gotta have every foot
available, you know...), thereby preventing anyone else from gridding
behind him.

As we all know, the rate of change in glider club procedures can be
glacial....

Kirk
66

Some people just ain't got no bringing up. There will always be the helpful, thoughtful types and then those who show up, sign up and go to breakfast. People talk about growing this sport, making it flourish but their attitudes and actions don't follow suit.

Placing your glider at the back edge of the runway might be appropriate in certain circumstances..... say a DG 1000 on a hot day..... otherwise.

Walt

[quote=Dan Marotta;772671]Glassholes??? It's not the construction of the glider that makes the
personality of the pilot...



OBTW, when I pull my glider out to fly, it's made of glass...


"Walt Connelly" wrote in message
...[color=blue][i]

I agree, it's not the construction of the glider that makes the personality of the pilot, but I have observed that to at least to some degree, those with the more economical ships have the best attitudes. "Glasshole" was not a term I coined.

The operational standards are set by the owner and they make sense to me. What I am trying to do is come up with a system that will be equitable and reasonable and perhaps present it them. Just because you have pulled out and parked next to the runway and left your glider for a couple of hours does not give you special dispensation. Many students and renters drive for hours to get to the glider port. They have a reasonable expectation of flying at a certain time. I agree with the comments about rides being done in the calmer air but a $120 to $160 dollar ride produces more revenue than a 200 foot tow.... I don't remember a rider even at mid-day not returning with a big smile, (okay, one puked but that's gonna happen) I understand the owners position.

Walt