Cambridge 302 Gear/Airbrake Warning - How to Test?

I've been using my 302 warnings this way since I've owned mine. Works
very well. As stated, it's simple to test the gear up/brakes unlocked
while on the ground. The speed-enabled warning requires simulated
airspeed. I don't really test the latter feature very often. My pre-
flight checklist handles making sure the brakes/spoilers are locked on
take-off. My ship has a very solid over-center lock mechanism. They've
never unlocked on me without me explicitly doing it to apply brakes/
spoilers. My pre-landing checklist also covers the gear deployment
before brake/spoiler usage for landing. I've actually never had the
alarm go off because I missed something or the brakes/spoilers
unlocked on their own. There were a few occasions where I deployed
spoilers to stay out of a cloud at the top of some strong lift. That's
the only time I've heard the alarm in flight. Hopefully it stays that
way. It certainly gives piece of mind to know I won't land gear up.

Why must we continue to try to make everything safe for everyone? Some
people should just NOT be flying aircraft. Or riding motorcycles, or
driving cars. I think we'd all be better served if these folks were told to
stop flying. But then we'd have to ask: "Who certified them as safe and
competent in the first place?"

Sorry if I sound harsh, but there are too many incompetent people in the
world, the result of putting their self esteem above their safety. If they
can't do it, why not just tell them so?


"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message
...
"Dan Marotta" wrote:
If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you shouldn't
be flying.

But those pilots clearly are flying. And are killing themselves and
hurting passengers etc.in depressingly familiar accidents.

In the case of the C302 (and hopefully ClearNav vario) this feature
works very well and I would connect in any glider I owned. The limit
with these things is does having a lots of these alarms just end up
confusing/distractions and can the pilot handle and respond to the alarm
(and given how far behind the aircraft some seem this may be a problem).
But a "it's there problem" attitude and just sitting by while pilots
kill themselves is not going to help this sport or those pilots. And yes
if somebody is clearly having problems with safe spoiler
operation/handling emergencies/distractions etc. my first call would be
time with a good instructor not add a gadget but those gadgets may have
a place as well.

Darryl

On 9/10/2011 12:19 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Why must we continue to try to make everything safe for everyone? Some
people should just NOT be flying aircraft. Or riding motorcycles, or
driving cars. I think we'd all be better served if these folks were told
to stop flying. But then we'd have to ask: "Who certified them as safe
and competent in the first place?"

Sorry if I sound harsh, but there are too many incompetent people in the
world, the result of putting their self esteem above their safety. If
they can't do it, why not just tell them so?

Sometimes we do, but it's not an easy task determining who is
incompetent, or if currently incompetent, will become competent. In a
recent post, you wrote:

If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you shouldn't
be flying.

Perhaps you missed my earlier response to that statement, but the basic
idea was: I know many competent pilots, including myself, that have had
this happen to them.

As many have pointed out, accidents are happening to pilots that appear
competent and are certainly experienced. It's not just the obvious bozo
that's having accidents.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 9/9/2011 8:00 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
If your airbrakes "suck open" after you are going faster than 25 knots
it will not warn you, just FYI...

It would work a tad better if the "spoiler open on tow" worked until
the first "gear up" condition before it reverted to the "spoiler
open / gear not down" mode.

If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you
shouldn't be flying.

I gotta say, that's a little harsh. I've had mine open twice, and
another time they were unlocked but I noticed it half way through the
tow before they opened. I did recognize it, but not right away. These
incidents happened over 3000 flight hours ago, and I had over 1500 hours
before any of them happened.

I know 13 (thirteen!) ASH 26 E pilots that have taken off with unlocked
spoilers that sucked open, and they did not notice it right away,
either. Every one of them was a very experienced pilot in airplanes,
gliders, or both. Most had at least 1000 glider hours, some were
competition pilots and National record holders, and all were competent
cross-country pilots whose names you often see on the OLC.

This illustrates what many have noticed: it isn't just the students, the
low-time pilots, or the poorly trained that can make mistakes. I do
think it's important how a pilot responds to prevent a problem from
recurring. All the pilots I've mentioned took steps to improve their
procedures, many also installed "Piggot Hook" devices and/or an
"unlocked spoiler" warning systems.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Sep 9, 10:00*am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you shouldn't be
flying.


Well Dan,

What if the pilot locked the spoilers as part of their using a written
pre-takeoff checklist. Maybe, the detent mechanism was slowly failing
and the first sign of this progressive failure was the first time the
spoilers opened on tow. Maybe they opened in conjunction with some
turbulence after the tow was well under way. Maybe the climb rate was
still 3-400 FPM all the way to release. Do you still agree with your
statement??

Mark

Yes, I still agree.

If you'll read my statement again, you'll see that I said "If your spoilers
**suck open** and you don't recognize it..." There's a big difference in
the spoilers being unlocked and open.

A slowly failing mechanizm will likely be overlooked, and I understand that,
but the sudden noise, drag, and loss of lift of open spoilers better be
recognized *immediately* or, as I said before, you shouldn't be flying.


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Sep 9, 10:00 am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you shouldn't be
flying.


Well Dan,

What if the pilot locked the spoilers as part of their using a written
pre-takeoff checklist. Maybe, the detent mechanism was slowly failing
and the first sign of this progressive failure was the first time the
spoilers opened on tow. Maybe they opened in conjunction with some
turbulence after the tow was well under way. Maybe the climb rate was
still 3-400 FPM all the way to release. Do you still agree with your
statement??

Mark

On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 09:00:53 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you shouldn't
be flying.

Maybe other outfits should adopt my club's new-for-2011 change in launch
procedu the cable is NOT put on unless the pilot announces "Brakes
locked" before asking for 'cable on'.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I was informed (and verified) that there is a way to easily test the
302 warning system while on the ground.

- Power down the 302
- Unlock the airbrakes with the gear unlocked/up
- Power up the 302

The alarm will then sound (euro siren) after the self test is
complete. A large upwards pointing arrow will appear in the display,
different than the small speed up/down arrows, meaning I suppose that
your gear is up. You can silence the alarm by pushing the button.

Yet another undocumented feature/sound from the Cambridge 302!

- John

On Sep 9, 7:23*pm, ContestID67 wrote:
I was informed (and verified) that there is a way to easily test the
302 warning system while on the ground.

- Power down the 302
- Unlock the airbrakes with the gear unlocked/up
- Power up the 302

The alarm will then sound (euro siren) after the self test is
complete. *A large upwards pointing arrow will appear in the display,
different than the small speed up/down arrows, meaning I suppose that
your gear is up. *You can silence the alarm by pushing the button.

Yet another undocumented feature/sound from the Cambridge 302!

- John

You don't have to power it down. Simply unlocking the brakes/spoilers
with the gear up will produce an alarm. You can turn the alarm on and
off by locking/unlocking the brakes/spoilers with the gear up.
Powering up/down does nothing different. That does not test the speed
enabled (spoilers unlocked on takeoff) alarm however.

By the way, with the 303, you'll get an appropriate text message on
the screen depending on which alarm it is.

On Sep 9, 7:23*pm, ContestID67 wrote:
I was informed (and verified) that there is a way to easily test the
302 warning system while on the ground.

- Power down the 302
- Unlock the airbrakes with the gear unlocked/up
- Power up the 302

The alarm will then sound (euro siren) after the self test is
complete. *A large upwards pointing arrow will appear in the display,
different than the small speed up/down arrows, meaning I suppose that
your gear is up. *You can silence the alarm by pushing the button.

Yet another undocumented feature/sound from the Cambridge 302!

- John

It is documented. See page 8 of the 302 manual.