Question about purchasing an airplane.

One more question: I heard more than one person suggest that I perform an
Annual inspection as a pre-buy inspection on the perspective plane.

Ok ... aside from the fact that it's expensive (I am sure), how does this
fit in the big picture really?

Let's invert the roles for a second, shall we?

I am a seller. One buyer wants to do an annual as a pre-buy. Would I let
him/her?

If the buyer does an annual (at his expense) and then he gets wishy-washy
and changes his mind and walks away (after wasting his money), what if
another buyer wants to buy the plane AND do an annual as a pre-buy?

Aren't annuals a bit ... invasive to the plane? Can't the plane be damaged?

Is it possible/feasable/realistic that a plane on sale could get Annual-ed
more than once in a very short period of time if things don't work out for
one reason or another?


--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com
"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
. net...

Annuals are not pre-buy inspections. They address different issues.
Annuals don't check rigging, radio interference, shimmy, door seals, (you
get the point)

I've purchased 3 planes. 1st from my field. 2nd thru a broker (excellent
experience), the 3rd thru TAP, long lists & long distance negotiation. (The
previous broker didn't have anything in stock I wanted.)

Get the pre-buy from an independent 3rd party. Make sure EVERYTHING works
and put a value on things you want. If the subject plane doesn't have it,
then it adds to the purchase price. I found a '87 A36 w/ 1800TT, 150 SFRM
in my
budget. But it had tips tanks, built-in O2 & new paint, oh well. They were
'free' because the other planes in my search were the same price w/o the
aforementioned. My guess was that the seller was motivated and the plane
was priced fair.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



take off my shoes to reply

It sounds like you are looking for a fair deal on a reliable older plane,
but are open to a few different models.

If you want my advice, I would say start walking around the local airports
on weekend mornings, or go to a local fly in breakfast or BBQ.

You can pick up ownership advice (watch out for those that have an axe to
grind) while asking around for leads on who takes good care of their plane
and may be interested in selling.

This is, in my opinion, the best way to get a good deal on a good plane.

Second best, call a top notch broker or distributor. They may not have
anything in stock. However, what you want to do is let them know that you
are available to come look at planes that people want to trade them.
Salesmen cannot make much money trading on low dollar planes, and are often
happy to facilitate a sale or trade if it means they get an order for a new
plane. The low trade in values that they have to offer people can often
prevent them from making a deal.

Good Luck.





"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
.net...
I am not looking into a specific plane right now.

I am looking into a "model" type and I was trying to figure out the
logistics of buying a plane that is "far away" (if I find one).

Models I'd be looking for are 172, Warriors and Sundowners for the most
part.

If I can't find anything decent then a 152 or a Tomahawk would suffice I
suppose (but I feel that 152s especially are a bit overpriced).

I am on TAP and AOPA. I have a few airplanes I am eyeing right now ... I
just need to find the guts to lift the phone off the hook and dial the
number.

Right now I don't have a plane. If I lift that phone ... I might have one.

well you know that saying? Careful what you wish, you might just get it.

I have done a lot of research and asked a lot of question but I won't
really
know what i am getting into .. until I actually do it.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Just curious, what kind of plane are you looking at that it would be
worth
it, or necessary to go so far from home?

Unless you are enamored with one of the newer designs, or an older
design
that is rare, it would seem the cost, hassle, and risk would make it
easier
to stay closer to home.

Also, I would caution you that small brokers and individuals generally
over
value and/or over represent their planes. New plane distributors, or
the
more well known brokers tend to charge a little more, but seem to be
interested in maintaining their good names more than others. They will
of
course put a positive outlook on things, but they won't be out in left
field
either.






"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
. net...
I just got my license (you can find the story of my Presidential TFR
checkride here if your are curious:
http://www.thepilotlounge.com/script...?showtopic=665 )

I am starting to seriously look into owning a plane now.

I can't imagine myself renting anymore since prices are not that good,
renting is inconvenient and clubs are a better deal but they all have
minimum hours restrictions ...

One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose
that
I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway
across
the country though.

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the
plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane?
Do
I
need to be there?

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane
from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Thank you!

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

Annuals are not going to hurt a plane. The reason to do this is to save
money on the next annual.

Victor has a good point to inspect many things an annual would not.


"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
.net...
One more question: I heard more than one person suggest that I perform an
Annual inspection as a pre-buy inspection on the perspective plane.

Ok ... aside from the fact that it's expensive (I am sure), how does this
fit in the big picture really?

Let's invert the roles for a second, shall we?

I am a seller. One buyer wants to do an annual as a pre-buy. Would I let
him/her?

If the buyer does an annual (at his expense) and then he gets wishy-washy
and changes his mind and walks away (after wasting his money), what if
another buyer wants to buy the plane AND do an annual as a pre-buy?

Aren't annuals a bit ... invasive to the plane? Can't the plane be
damaged?

Is it possible/feasable/realistic that a plane on sale could get Annual-ed
more than once in a very short period of time if things don't work out for
one reason or another?


--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com
"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
. net...

Yes. My plane is not though, it's at 1B9 (Mansfield). No lights at 9B1,
you know.

Yeah. And questionable on getting out of there on a hot summer day
with full fuel and a couple passengers. Any reason you don't keep your
plane at 6B6 (Stow)? It's closer, no? How long a ride is it for you to
Mansfield?

I live in Marlborough also. I rent my instructors (turned friend) 172
based at 60M (Spencer). That's a 40 min drive for me.

Thanks,

Michael

Dude wrote:

If you want my advice, I would say start walking around the local airports
on weekend mornings, or go to a local fly in breakfast or BBQ.

If you do this at an airport where few people know you, check in with the airport
manager first. Strangers walking around the field have explaining to do these days.
You definitely would rather explain things to the manager at 3N6 *before* he finds
you wandering around looking for "for sale" signs, 'cause explaining afterwards is
unlikely to be a pleasant experience.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

Good point, sad how the world has changed

I wouldn't be looking for signs though, I would be looking for people
willing to talk to you. Perhaps the airport hanger, terminal, or fbo lounge
would work just as well. The point is to use foot work and hangar talk to
find the best deals, perhpas before the sign even goes up.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dude wrote:

If you want my advice, I would say start walking around the local
airports
on weekend mornings, or go to a local fly in breakfast or BBQ.

If you do this at an airport where few people know you, check in with the
airport
manager first. Strangers walking around the field have explaining to do
these days.
You definitely would rather explain things to the manager at 3N6 *before*
he finds
you wandering around looking for "for sale" signs, 'cause explaining
afterwards is
unlikely to be a pleasant experience.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band
to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come
home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message v.net...

Models I'd be looking for are 172, Warriors and Sundowners for the most
part.

If I can't find anything decent then a 152 or a Tomahawk would suffice I
suppose (but I feel that 152s especially are a bit overpriced).


You're looking for fairly common types. I would recommend that you
not bother looking all over the country. You can probably find one
pretty close to home.

When I started looking for my last plane, I drew a 500 mile circle
(cheap, short hop airline ticket) around my home base and concentrated
the search in that area. The problem with a nationwide search is
that you're going to want to check out the plane yourself before
plunking down hundreds for inspections and deposits. Unfortunately,
many airplanes that look great in the ads and when you talk to the
seller by phone, turn out to be piles of junk when you see them in
person. I don't know why the sellers do this, but it happens a lot.
If you limit the search to a smaller geographical area, you'll take a
smaller hit on travel.

All bets are off if you decide you want something rare or exotic
like a Hatz biplane, or a Mooney Mite. But, for something common like
a 172 or Warrior, it's cheaper to stick close to home.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

A good resource is "Aircraft Buyer's Handbook" by Bill Hemmel.

I also purchased "Used Aircraft Guide" from Aviation Consumer. It's a two
volume set describing the good and bad points of most singles and light
twins and is a great help in deciding what you're looking for. It's $70 but
that's peanuts when buying a plane.

Also check out Aeroprice for price estimation software. VREF numbers are
usually 10% high and not very accurate.

Michael Nickolas wrote:
comments about 9B1 snipped
: Yeah. And questionable on getting out of there on a hot summer day
: with full fuel and a couple passengers. Any reason you don't keep your
: plane at 6B6 (Stow)? It's closer, no? How long a ride is it for you to
: Mansfield?

I believe that Stow and Mansfield would take me about the same time to
drive there. To Mansfield, it's a 30-minute drive all on highways.
To Stow, it's a 30-minute drive, almost all on back roads.
When we were having a disagreement with the airport management at Mansfield,
I was considering moving to Stow. I would really like to be based somewhere
with an ILS, but Hanscom is to obnoxious and Worcester is too far and
always has terrible weather.

Other reasons: I learned to fly at Mansfield, and I have a lot of friends
who fly out of there. Also, Providence is only a 15-minute flight, and
is my alternate when IFR. Providence is open all night, has an ILS in every
direction, and has a 24-hour rental car establishment that has come in
handy on a couple occasions.
Stow seems to have the highest gas prices around, and doesn't have the
cross runway (Mansfield has a nice grass cross runway).
Sadly, Mansfield lost its coffee shop a couple years ago. Stow has a really
nice restaurtant.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)