third seatbelt in 172

The Weiss Family wrote:

I'm a new pilot (passed my checkride last Saturday). I have a wife and
three small children (all 6yrs and under).

Congratulations! Welcome to the club!

If not, is there any other fixed-gear single in a similar price range that
could accomodate 5?

YES! The Socata TB-series (in your case, the -9, -10, and the new -200)
are all five-seat aircraft. The cabins are significantly wider than
Cessnas and Pipers (50" v. 41" and 42", if memory serves), and they're
certificated with five seatbelts--not even an STC. Great-flying
airplanes, too; I've flown Cherokees with both the straight and tapered
wings, and 172's, and I'd take my Tampico (TB-9, 160HP) any day.

I would second the thought voiced by others, though: they're not going
to be six forever. However, if you are thinking about trading up as you
build time, this would work great for you. I have a bunch of pictures
up at http://www.flight-instruction.com/images/n30391, and a short blurb
at http://www.flight-instruction.com/tb9.php.

If you want to talk more, feel free to send me e-mail. The address in
the headers is invalid (infernal spammers!), but the one in my .sig is good.

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

I'd like to thank everyone for your replies.
I was planning on getting into something smaller now, and then eventually
trading up to a cherokee six.
It sounds like the TB-9 might be worth taking a look at.

I think I'll probably fly for a year or so before I buy.
That should give me an idea of both how much of a plane I'll need.

thanks again,

Adam

"Dave Buckles" wrote in message
news:8X4pc.36613$pJ1.36307@lakeread02...
The Weiss Family wrote:

I'm a new pilot (passed my checkride last Saturday). I have a wife and
three small children (all 6yrs and under).

Congratulations! Welcome to the club!

If not, is there any other fixed-gear single in a similar price range
that
could accomodate 5?

YES! The Socata TB-series (in your case, the -9, -10, and the new -200)
are all five-seat aircraft. The cabins are significantly wider than
Cessnas and Pipers (50" v. 41" and 42", if memory serves), and they're
certificated with five seatbelts--not even an STC. Great-flying
airplanes, too; I've flown Cherokees with both the straight and tapered
wings, and 172's, and I'd take my Tampico (TB-9, 160HP) any day.

I would second the thought voiced by others, though: they're not going
to be six forever. However, if you are thinking about trading up as you
build time, this would work great for you. I have a bunch of pictures
up at http://www.flight-instruction.com/images/n30391, and a short blurb
at http://www.flight-instruction.com/tb9.php.

If you want to talk more, feel free to send me e-mail. The address in
the headers is invalid (infernal spammers!), but the one in my .sig is
good.

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

thanks for all the input!
I think I'll fly for a while and see how it goes. In the mean time, I'll
check out the TB-9.
Eventually, I'd like to trade up to a cherokee six.

thanks,

Adam


"The Weiss Family" wrote in message
...
I'm a new pilot (passed my checkride last Saturday). I have a wife and
three small children (all 6yrs and under).

Weight and balance would be OK to fit three kids in back of a 172, and it
looks like plenty of space (at least while they're young). Is it possible
to get a STC to install a third seatbelt?

If not, is there any other fixed-gear single in a similar price range that
could accomodate 5?

Thanks,

Adam

Someplace I saw a letter of approval stating that one seatbelt could be used
for two people. It was intended for use where there is a single seat belt
across a bench seat, but I've heard of people also justifying putting three
in the back with it.

I don't know where I saw it.

Plan B: a C182 can have a child's seat installed. A friend of mine has one.
He can fit five in his Skylane with it.

Plan C: Get checked out in a Cherokee Six.

"The Weiss Family" wrote in message
...
I'm a new pilot (passed my checkride last Saturday). I have a wife and
three small children (all 6yrs and under).

Weight and balance would be OK to fit three kids in back of a 172, and it
looks like plenty of space (at least while they're young). Is it possible
to get a STC to install a third seatbelt?

If not, is there any other fixed-gear single in a similar price range that
could accomodate 5?

Thanks,

Adam

I think the letter you refer to dates back to November 1990, in
response to query from AOPA. It may be available from them.

As I recall, the letter confirmed a previous interpretation of the
FARs for using one belt for two "individuals" provided the strength of
the belt is adequate for that use, but also adds that the practice may
not afford the same level of protection as separate belts would,
especially for children.

Hope this helps.

J


"Steve Foley" wrote in message ...
Someplace I saw a letter of approval stating that one seatbelt could be used
for two people. It was intended for use where there is a single seat belt
across a bench seat, but I've heard of people also justifying putting three
in the back with it.

I don't know where I saw it.

(Javier Gorordo) wrote in message om...
I think the letter you refer to dates back to November 1990, in
response to query from AOPA. It may be available from them.

Here is what I found

"The FAA letter is dated 11/5/1990 and is included in an AOPA packet
called
"Traveling with Children

FAA response to an AOPA request for clarification of an FAR wording
change.


[address omitted]

We are responding to your request for clarification of a wording
change in Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) Section 91.205(b)(12) and
whether that change affects the carriage of two children in one seat
belt.

The July 15, 1986, letter you attached is an interpretation of then
FAR Section 91.14, now FAR Section 91.107. The Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) policy is that FAA does not require separate
seats or separate safety belts for FAR Part 91 operations. One safety
belt may be fastened around two individuals provided that the strength
of the safety belt is not compromised and that the aircraft's weight
and balance remain within limits. This policy is based on the Preamble
to Amendment 91-89, effective in August 1971, and has not been
superseded by succeeding amendments.

The change in wording of FAR Section 91.205(b)(12) reflects the
current airworthiness requirements for newly manufactured, normal,
utility, or aerobatic category aircraft. The change in wording does
not affect the FAA's along-standing policy concerning bench seats and
safety belts enclosing two individuals, as stated above. However, to
quote from our 1986 letter, ". . .Experience has shown that the use
of one seat belt by one occupant affords less of a chance of injury,
in case of an accident, as opposed to multiple occupants using one
seatbelt..."

[further clarification on another issued omitted]

Sincerely,


Gabriel D. Bruno
Manager, Operations Brance