General Aviation Dead?

General Aviation is in decline mostly because of cost. A large part of the
former middle class is gone in the United States. Anyone wishing to fly must
either have a great deal of money (e.g., the top 1%) or must be willing to
make gigantic sacrifices to raise the money for flying. Most people don't want
to fly enough to make gigantic sacrifices, and most people don't make much
money, so GA is in decline.

If a prosperous middle class were to reappear, this trend would probably
reverse.

Another problem is the massive regulation of aviation, which raises the price
and creates many other barriers, surmountable and sometimes insurmountable, to
flying. But this is mostly a constant rather than a variable, so it does not
push GA into decline so much as it holds it at an artificially low level.

Some aspects of GA are doing much better than others. The top 1% is still very
interested in flying around on private jets, for example.

And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.

On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.


Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:

Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.

the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
single detached house.

The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

--
Peter

In article ,
Peter Skelton wrote:

On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.


Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:

Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.

the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
single detached house.

The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
types.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:05:29 -0700, Steve Hix wrote:

In article ,
Peter Skelton wrote:

On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.

Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:

Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.

the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
single detached house.

The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
types.

I know all this. Mr. V is my sockpuppet so STFU.

I win.

Again.

A*

On 16/10/2011 2:05 PM, Steve Hix wrote:
In ,
Peter wrote:

On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.


Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:

Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.

the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
single detached house.

The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
types.

The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
plane but with no commonality with the original cub.

--
Peter

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:56:38 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

General Aviation is in decline mostly because of cost. A large part of the
former middle class is gone in the United States. Anyone wishing to fly must
either have a great deal of money (e.g., the top 1%) or must be willing to
make gigantic sacrifices to raise the money for flying. Most people don't want
to fly enough to make gigantic sacrifices, and most people don't make much
money, so GA is in decline.

If a prosperous middle class were to reappear, this trend would probably
reverse.

Another problem is the massive regulation of aviation, which raises the price
and creates many other barriers, surmountable and sometimes insurmountable, to
flying. But this is mostly a constant rather than a variable, so it does not
push GA into decline so much as it holds it at an artificially low level.

Some aspects of GA are doing much better than others. The top 1% is still very
interested in flying around on private jets, for example.

Mxsmanic=Tom=Mu=Chung=Courtney Brown

I win.

Again.

A*

On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
"I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or

the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,

and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did

it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"



http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/

Unfortunately our capitalist system with out sufficient checks and balances,greedy pilots and general greed is slowly destroying our Republic.We earnestly pray that a dictator will not come to our aid as Hitler helped Germany.. General Aviation:[ HELP ONE ANOTHER ] Think of good neighbor ,not of the greedy dollar, Victor.

On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
"I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or

the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,

and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did

it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"



http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/

On 10/28/2013 5:03 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
"I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"

http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/

any event (adverse, unfortunate, inconvenient or just for the
hell of it) + lawyers = lawsuits = increased insurance costs +
regulations, restrictions & paperwork
government = regulation & paperwork = expense for the owner,
operator and manufacturer
EPA = lawsuits, fines and cleanup = expense
"War on terror" = regulation, paperwork and restrictions
land prices for development increase = closed airports
private airports disappearing from charts = fewer places to go

pretty soon it's not quite worth it to go flying and the
value of the airplane has dropped so far that it's not
quite worth trying to sell it

--
-- Marten Kemp (Fix ISP to reply)