DG "service contract" revisited

As for experimental, racing aircraft, who can do maintenance and sign it off is specified in the Operating Limitations that accompany the special airworthiness certificate. The few such aircraft I am familiar with have operating limitations that are basically the same as experimental, amateur-built.

As for experimental, amateur-built aircraft, unless it is specifically prohibited by the Operating Limitations (and I have never, ever, seen such a restriction), anybody or any creature may perform any maintenance, repairs, or modifications on the aircraft and sign them off. Anybody. Or any creature.. Being human is not a requirement:

http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTM

For some major repairs or modifications, you are required to notify the FAA, and they push you back into your Phase I testing for a while. But, again, anybody can do those repairs or modifications.

The only privilege conferred by the repairbeing certificate is that of conducting and signing off the annual condition inspection. That's it. That inspection can also be conducted by an A&P; IA certification is not required.

Thanks, Bob K.



On Sunday, December 15, 2013 3:45:52 PM UTC-8, wrote:

I know this is an old post but I have a DG 400 (experimental) and think there might be fundamental misunderstanding of experimental aircraft and maintenance practices. In the USA there in NO difference regarding standard or experimental aircraft regarding 'owner accomplished' maintenance unless the owner also built the aircraft. Unless you built your ship (I don't know of any owner built glass ships) you fall under identical maintenance FAR 43 requirements as a standard airworthiness aircraft regarding owner done maintenance, there are 31 items an owner can accomplish. Experimental none owner built doesn't really do much as far as maintenance practices.. it just really means your annual is called a condition inspection and can be done by a AP not an IA... that's about all it does.

On Oct 21, 6:48*am, ContestID67 wrote:
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the
"DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial.

Here in the US, 14CFR§21.303(b)2 makes provisions for the installation
of owner-produced parts on certificated aircraft in cases where the
originals are impractical to obtain. I think you can make a good case
that that is the situation that prevails here.

This article has some good information about owner-produced parts, and
also offers a cautionary tale about how it can go wrong:

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

Thanks, Bob K.

On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:



Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter of
the German Aeroclub hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm

On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/...

Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend (or
both) out for an evening in town.

Happy soaring,

Lars Peder

Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

Random comments to the above messages:

With Photo Shop, I can copy a page and insert my serial number.

Most folks I've talked to, regard Experimental as better than Standard as it
allows us to do a lot more things with our aircraft. I don't think it has
any effect on value, besides, these things are NOT an investment, they're
expensive toys.

I really wanted another (3rd) LS-6, but this crap convinced me to move on.
I'm now enjoying my LAK-17a...

Screw DG and all their horses.


"bish" wrote in message
...
On 21 oct, 08:44, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

On Oct 21, 6:55 am, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:



Finally, someone is taking legal action against DG Flugzeugbau.

Those who understand German can follow the Nordrhein-Westfalen chapter
of
the German Aeroclub
hehttp://www.aeroclub-nrw.de/htmd/01h-aktuelles.htm

On a related note, the EASA continues to sabotage DG's effort to force
us to
sign contracts, in order to obtain new manuals. The updated Type
Certificate
Data Sheets for LS gliders clearly state that you can use the old OR the
new
(May 2011) manuals.

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...ocs/aircrafts/...

Also, DG tries to force you to pay for the contract in all the years
from
2009 if you need a service in, say, 2016. Apart from being extremely
questionable from a legal standpoint, this raises the question: Why
should
anyone pay for a yearly contract with DG at all, then? It is much better
to
put an equivalent sum into your own savings account, so you are able to
pay
ransom money if ever needed. Meanwhile, the interest you earn on your
own
money may buy you a Flarm, or enable you to take the wife / girlfriend
(or
both) out for an evening in town.

Happy soaring,

Lars Peder

Replace numbers with post1.tele.dk to answer by email- Masquer le texte
des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

Yeah! I love my Lak17a. Great glider!

Wow. This business practice is incredibly poor. I cannot believe that anyone would buy a new glider from this company ever again. I hope your cause is able to win a legal case and stop it quickly but I imagine the result would be a bankruptcy. Amazing that they have the balls to stay the course regardless of all the complaints. Its been a couple years now correct?

I for one will never touch a DG for this reason.

Sean

It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, bish wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

On 21 oct, 10:10, jcarlyle wrote:
It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, bish wrote:



DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

I was sent a email saying which credit card they will use
S6

On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote:
It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

Yes, I I was aware of that. Because of the gear collapse, though, it
was advantageous to keep the service contract going, even if DG did
renew it by underhanded means.

-John


On Oct 21, 2:27 pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann