Cost of annual?

"Hankal" wrote in message
...
I do not think 55 hours at $70.00 is resonable for an inspection

WHAT? For just the inspection? Maybe 15-17 hrs. What would take 55
hours to inspect on a 172?

Where are you located? It might make a difference if you are in the
boondocks compared to the metro

At a small airport in SE Florida. KLNA

Hank (or Al, or whatever)
I would guess you are about to be "informed" by Jim of a very common
indistinction made by many owners. There should be a CLEAR distinction
between the required ANNUAL INSPECTION, the repairs necessary to allow
the aircraft to pass that inspection, and the routine maintenance (such
as greasing wheel bearings) often performed at this inspection.

The annual inspection cost should be determined by your inspector's rate
times the standard hours to inspect your aircraft. My aircraft calls
for 22 hours to perform the inspection... Others less than ten. In the
present legal enviornment, many IA's need additional time the first time
they inspect an aircraft to assure themselves that the paperwork is in
order and that mandatory work previously signed off was, in fact,
correctly done.

The cost of regular maintenance is also easy to figure.

The cost of repairs to make YOUR aircraft airworthy is anybody's guess!

Rich

Hankal wrote:
What does it cost for your annual?
Some shops around here now give an estimate then add for parts and extra labor.
I think some shops like to make a killing. I want all the airworthy item taken
care of and AD's complied with, but would pay by the hour.
I have a Cessna 172 in good shape.

Rich
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Hank (or Al, or whatever)
-I would guess you are about to be "informed" by Jim of a very common
-indistinction made by many owners.

Moi? MOI???!!!


There should be a CLEAR distinction
-between the required ANNUAL INSPECTION, the repairs necessary to allow
-the aircraft to pass that inspection, and the routine maintenance (such
-as greasing wheel bearings) often performed at this inspection.

That is about the best truth that you are going to find on the newsgroups today.


-
-The annual inspection cost should be determined by your inspector's rate
-times the standard hours to inspect your aircraft. My aircraft calls
-for 22 hours to perform the inspection... Others less than ten.

And of those hours, somewhere between 80 and 90% are the labor to pull off the
inspection plates, pull the cowl, pull the spark plugs, tear the seats out to
pull the interior inspection plates off, open up the headliner, take the rear
bulkhead cover off, pull the wheel pants, (get the jacks onto the hardpoints for
retractible), fire up the compressor and pull the air hose over for the
compression check, and all the rest of the busywork required to get the airplane
into condition for inspection.

Let's take a middle ground...15 hours to do the inspection "by the book". Even
this is high for an airplane that you've been looking at for two or three years,
but let's go with it. Let's also go on the low side of my "grunt labor"
estimate. This means 3 hours actually "inspecting" and 12 hours grunting. I
think "owner assisted" folks here will tell you that these numbers are
real...and of those three hours "inspecting", two will be actually looking and
measuring and one will be paperwork -- AD research and the like.

So I get $200 for 3 hours work. That's $66 an hour. And you call me a cheap
date?



In the
-present legal enviornment, many IA's need additional time the first time
-they inspect an aircraft to assure themselves that the paperwork is in
-order and that mandatory work previously signed off was, in fact,
-correctly done.

That's why I get $200 on the first annual, $175 on the second, and $150 for
every CONSECUTIVE annual thereafter. The first annual is a bitch, as the
research on the ADs goes back to the day that sucker rolled out of the factory.
We also do a full back-to-the-factory weight and balance spreadsheet and the
lookin' don't get done until the writin' all is in order. Now you are right, I
**am** a cheap date, because by the time this first one gets done, I've got at
least 5 or 6 hours in the can with first-time paperwork. After the first one,
though, it is about fifteen minutes to see if there were any new ADs or
recurrent ones whose time is up, and an update of the weight/balance with "owner
installed" goodies, and other minor stuff. So I really start making my money
with the second and third annuals, which is why I do what I do.


That, and I'm very upfront with the owner that (a) they are going to get their
hands greasy; (b) I'm not going to sign off an unairworthy aircraft for ANY
reason; and (c) they are going to get a list of stuff that I'd like to see some
preventive maintenance done on in the coming year. The list is a checklist and
I want to see that checklist punched BEFORE I start the following year.

I ain't as cheap as you might think... {;-)


Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

In article ,
wrote:

So I get $200 for 3 hours work. That's $66 an hour. And you call me a
cheap
date?

The local motorcycle dealer charges $72/hours for service, so, yeah,
the $66/hour for an IA is a bargain. (you have a heck of a lot
more training than the guys at the dealer).

--
Bob Noel

Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
wrote:


So I get $200 for 3 hours work. That's $66 an hour. And you call me a
cheap
date?


The local motorcycle dealer charges $72/hours for service, so, yeah,
the $66/hour for an IA is a bargain. (you have a heck of a lot
more training than the guys at the dealer).


.... and more liability, by a long shot.

hat, and I'm very upfront with the owner that (a) they are going to get their
hands greasy; (b) I'm not going to sign off an unairworthy aircraft for ANY
reason; and (c) they are going to get a list of stuff that I'd like to see
some
preventive maintenance done on in the coming year. The list is a checklist
and
I want to see that checklist punched BEFORE I start the following year.

I ain't as cheap as you might think... {;-)


Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor

Jim you are so correct. You are doing it the correct way and I would never have
a problem if shops in my area would have this approach. I do not want to fly
any aircraft that is not safe. I also pay for any work that is required. I have
a problem with shops that state x amount for the annual then parts and labor.
BTW I do remove all the plates, the seats. Give them a clean engine with the
cowling removed.

This is not particularly relevant to the situation described but I'm
happy to report that my recently-completed "annual" was only about
$5500 this year (not including replacing my leaky airspeed indicator).
There were no significant fixes needed for once. I even dodged an
expensive AD of replacing flap torque tubes because I had it done
years ago when it was just a service bulletin.

I usually spend two to five times this much during an annual so I'm
thrilled that I'm making some progress. Then again, I hardly flew
this past year (after frequently flying cross-country the years
before).

--kyler

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 09:14:06 -0400, Rich wrote:

There should be a CLEAR distinction
between the required ANNUAL INSPECTION, the repairs necessary to allow
the aircraft to pass that inspection, and the routine maintenance (such
as greasing wheel bearings) often performed at this inspection.


Oh so true. The problem I've found is very few people will do an
Inspection. I've talked to a bunch of shops / people, and they either
want to do the whole thing, or nothing at all. I even tell them an
A&P will sign the 100 hour before I bring them the plane!

It's very frustrating.

z

IA's need additional time the first time
they inspect an aircraft to assure themselves that the paperwork is in
order and that mandatory work previously signed off was, in fact,
correctly done.

If the last 5 annuals were done and the logs state that all AD's were coplied
with,
why would the next IA have to spent more time. Just make sure that new AD's are
complied with.
Again why do shops give an estimate to do the annual, then add for additional
parts and labor. One shop will say $700.00 for the anual another $1000.00 and
the third at 1400.00. I am sure that inspection tome should be the same. Shop
rates can vary, but how much??