Value of a knot

On 7-Sep-2004, (C Kingsbury) wrote:

This illustrates why having small tanks in order to obtain high "full
fuel"
cabin load is such a stupid idea.

Anybody know of a mod to install a lavatory in place of the back seat in a
172?

Try:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl...._ID=297&DID=19

Cheap, too!

--
-Elliott Drucker

wrote in message news:4fp%c.4397$j62.2501@trnddc04...
On 7-Sep-2004, (C Kingsbury) wrote:

Anybody know of a mod to install a lavatory in place of the back seat in a
172?

Try:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl...._ID=297&DID=19

Cheap, too!

I was wondering how long it would take somebody to suggest that.

To be honest, I hate sitting in any vehicle for more than 3 hours at a
stretch anyway. Even in a nice big couch-on-wheels car, I stop every
few hours and stretch out.

I remember one time on a trip back from MVY to BED (1 hour-ish) one of
my pax made the comment that he had to go "like a racehorse." He
asked, how long until we're home, I said an hour maybe, and he
grimaced. I said, no biggie, we'll just stop right down there, and 10
minutes later we were on the ground at PYM. I think that illustrated
the "freedom" of GA better than any lecture I could have given. You
want to stop? Just land at the next airport... He and the other pax
couldn't get over the novelty of the concept.

-cwk.

Ben Jackson wrote:

If you're flying long distances and want to cut the total time, the most
cost effective way is to carry enough fuel that you don't have to stop.
If you can cut a 30 minute fuel stop out of a C-172 flightplan it's like
adding 15kts.

Another way might be to get an instrument rating.

I only have one data point for this, but this spring a fleet of 4
Warriors took a club trip from TTA to IAD. It was a VFR day. The one
flying VFR put 6.1 hours on the hobbes. The three flying IFR all put
5.1 hours on. I was the VFR one. The ADIZ did not slow me down as far
as I can tell. As far as I can tell the penalty was due to:

1. Worse ATC service. Once in the ADIZ and class B, every time I was
switched to a different frequency, I had to wait for several stretches
for there to be a break in the servicing of IFR traffic before I could
even get acknowledged and get a vector. Not to mention how nervous you
can get flying right at the prohibited area (or later, right at the
airport at 3500) on the vector the last guy gave you and the new guy
hasn't acknowledged you for several minutes.

2. More vectoring. While my compatriots were being cleared direct to
Brooke VOR then to IAD, I was getting vectored around the RDU Class C,
and then once in the ADIZ and class B I was vectored all over the place
to basically get me out of the way while the IFR traffic landed, then
they worked me into a gap in the IFR traffic for landing. My first time
on a 13 mile final in a Warrior!

I don't know if this is typical, but assuming an instrutment rating
costs $5-6000 to get working the $/effective knot here might be a pretty
good number. So pilots who fly both IFR and VFR, is that experience
typical? Is better routing and radar service a good enough reason to
get the instrument rating, even if you don't plan to do much hard IFR?

In article ,
TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:

Another way might be to get an instrument rating.

1. Worse ATC service [vfr]. Once in the ADIZ and class B, ...

Controllers have to make quick judgements about who they can trust to
execute more complex clearances without deviating. In my experience
several things factor in, including: good radio technique, being on an
IFR flightplan, and flying an airplane that's not typically a trainer.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:

: typical? Is better routing and radar service a good enough reason to
: get the instrument rating, even if you don't plan to do much hard IFR?

Yes.
It's helpful for avoiding TFRs that suddenly pop up. It's helpful for avoiding
active MOA (IFR aircraft get separation from military traffic). It's helpful
for not having to dial up every stinkin class C & D from Boston to Miami. It's
helpful for not having to study the many shelves of the MOAs on the coast of
the Carolinas. It's helpful for landing at a class B main airport. etc.
--
Aaron Coolidge

I find that if I transit the Phoenix Class B airspace as a VFR pop-up, ATC
sometimes treats me as a second class citizen. If I contact Tucson
departure as I leave the airport and request flight following into Phoenix,
things usually go much smoother. I now fly almost all of my long cross
country flights with flight following rather than a formal VFR flight plan
and have the extra security blanket of someone immediately available to talk
to when needed.
--
Regards,
Mike

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/amountainaero/fspic1.html
"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...
Ben Jackson wrote:

If you're flying long distances and want to cut the total time, the most
cost effective way is to carry enough fuel that you don't have to stop.
If you can cut a 30 minute fuel stop out of a C-172 flightplan it's like
adding 15kts.

Another way might be to get an instrument rating.

I only have one data point for this, but this spring a fleet of 4
Warriors took a club trip from TTA to IAD. It was a VFR day. The one
flying VFR put 6.1 hours on the hobbes. The three flying IFR all put
5.1 hours on. I was the VFR one. The ADIZ did not slow me down as far
as I can tell. As far as I can tell the penalty was due to:

1. Worse ATC service. Once in the ADIZ and class B, every time I was
switched to a different frequency, I had to wait for several stretches
for there to be a break in the servicing of IFR traffic before I could
even get acknowledged and get a vector. Not to mention how nervous you
can get flying right at the prohibited area (or later, right at the
airport at 3500) on the vector the last guy gave you and the new guy
hasn't acknowledged you for several minutes.

2. More vectoring. While my compatriots were being cleared direct to
Brooke VOR then to IAD, I was getting vectored around the RDU Class C,
and then once in the ADIZ and class B I was vectored all over the place
to basically get me out of the way while the IFR traffic landed, then
they worked me into a gap in the IFR traffic for landing. My first time
on a 13 mile final in a Warrior!

I don't know if this is typical, but assuming an instrutment rating
costs $5-6000 to get working the $/effective knot here might be a pretty
good number. So pilots who fly both IFR and VFR, is that experience
typical? Is better routing and radar service a good enough reason to
get the instrument rating, even if you don't plan to do much hard IFR?

I don't know if this is typical, but assuming an instrutment rating
costs $5-6000 to get working the $/effective knot here might be a pretty
good number. So pilots who fly both IFR and VFR, is that experience
typical?

Certainly not in case of non-turbo'd airplanes in the West... VFR is
almost always more efficient, routing-wise. However, I agree IFR tends
to be a lot easier in busy class-B areas.

Dude wrote:
: I got an idea from a recent thread.

: I would like to know what you guys would spend to go a little faster. This
: would seem to be interesting information, and a fun topic.

This isn't really what you asked, but its been bothering me for a while.
The most cost-effective speed mod that I have ever seen is:
Ram air knob on an '83 Mooney 201. It adds 0.5 to 0.75 inches of MP at
full throttle, and is worth 3 knots. My friend, the owner of the Mooney,
won't bother using it because "It's too much trouble, and it's not worth it".

I keep reminding him that us Cherokee owners spend over $3000 to get a 3-knot
increase, and he can have the same for FREE!

--
Aaron Coolidge

My own view - who cares?
I fly because I love to fly - not because I want to get from A to B in X
amount of time. I have friends who go Waaaay faster than me - and they
burn 14gph. I plod along burning 8gph. I love to fly.They get there much
faster and fly a lot less. I doodle along at my 8GPH, and take way
longer than them. There are faster ways of getting there - but that
isn't why I'm flying. I'm flying because I love flying. So how much
would I pay to fly faster? Very little. How much would I pay to get
shorter and safer take-offs from short high density altitude strips?
Lots.

Tony


--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article ,
"Dude" wrote:

I got an idea from a recent thread.

I would like to know what you guys would spend to go a little faster. This
would seem to be interesting information, and a fun topic.

Please note the present speed of your plane, because 5 knots means a lot
more at 100 than 200.

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when I am
not.

I know the people selling the mods often over advertise, but lets assume we
know the real increase of a given mod from an expert. What's it worth to
you?




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

"tony roberts" wrote in message
news:nospam-4FFFDB.23194306092004@shawnews...
My own view - who cares?
I fly because I love to fly - not because I want to get from A to B in X
amount of time. I have friends who go Waaaay faster than me - and they
burn 14gph. I plod along burning 8gph. I love to fly.They get there much
faster and fly a lot less. I doodle along at my 8GPH, and take way
longer than them. There are faster ways of getting there - but that
isn't why I'm flying. I'm flying because I love flying. So how much
would I pay to fly faster? Very little. How much would I pay to get
shorter and safer take-offs from short high density altitude strips?
Lots.

Ok, how about turning this around. Each person has their own value
on speed and time...obviously someone who could make $100,000 a
sale and could do three a a day instead of two by going 10 knots faster
would find speed worth it! But...if you're talking about aerodynamic
clean-ups...the collorary to that is if you want to go the same speed,
how much fuel does it save you? It would save more money here in
Europe where fuel is much more expensive.

So how much would you spend to save how much on fuel?? :-)

The ultimate here where kerosene is 1/3 the price of avgas would be a
diesel conversion.

Paul