Flying under Class B

"Dude" wrote in message
...

It doesn't vary at all. If you're outside of the Class B airspace ATC
has
no authority to assign altitudes to VFR aircraft.



Steve,

We can argue rules all day long, but the way things are done can make the
results of whats done inside the rules seem strangely dissimilar in the
cockpit.

Whether they have authority or not at all, doesn't matter one wit. They
do
it, and you can respond with compliance or not (since they do not have
authority, you can choose to disregard).

I have given you a real life, and common, example of what happens in my
area. If you choose to not believe me, that is fine. Lots of people fly
down the coast of Florida outside of the class B. Am I the only one who
ever gets an assignment?


I didn't say it wasn't done, I said they don't have the authority to do it.

"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...

What is the minimum legal distance (altitude) to fly VFR under a Class B
"wedding cake"?


No such mimimum distance exists.



CLE has a 1900 ft floor at the north side by Lake Erie and I have
flown at 1800 to go around CLE. I was not talking to CLE so I
don't know if they objected.


There's nothing for them to object to.



Today I was coming around CLE decending IFR. When in VMS I
cancelled IFR and remained on squak for advisories. The controller
wanted me at 3000 when under a 4000 ft designated altitude. Was he
just being safe for his own good or is 1000 ft suggested as the minimum
buffer?


Outside of Class B airspace he has no responsibility for separation and
cannot require VFR aircraft to operate at any particular altitude. Of
course, other regulations can come into play here, such as VFR cruising
altitudes.

(PaulaJay1) wrote:
What is the minimum legal distance (altitude) to fly VFR under a Class B
"wedding cake"? CLE has a 1900 ft floor at the north side by Lake Erie and I
have flown at 1800 to go around CLE.

Nothing wrong with that from a legal standpoint.

Today I was coming around CLE decending IFR. When in VMS I
cancelled IFR and remained on squak for advisories. The controller wanted me
at 3000 when under a 4000 ft designated altitude.

If you're VFR, you decide what altitude to fly at. I can't see any
reason why flying at 3500 below at 4000 foot floor would be
inappropriate.

There can be a lot of VFR traffic cruising around under the B space. It's
a good idea to just talk to ATC and get their help.


"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...
What is the minimum legal distance (altitude) to fly VFR under a Class B
"wedding cake"? CLE has a 1900 ft floor at the north side by Lake Erie
and I
have flown at 1800 to go around CLE. I was not talking to CLE so I don't
know
if they objected. Today I was coming around CLE decending IFR. When in
VMS I
cancelled IFR and remained on squak for advisories. The controller wanted
me
at 3000 when under a 4000 ft designated altitude. Was he just being safe
for
his own good or is 1000 ft suggested as the minimum buffer? I know, I
should
have ask him but the frequency was pretty busy.

Chuck

OtisWinslow wrote:

There can be a lot of VFR traffic cruising around under the B space. It's
a good idea to just talk to ATC and get their help.

I've only dealt with Orlando and New York. New York would rather not deal with you
most of the time. Even when they politely acknowledge your presence, they are usually
too busy to advise you about other traffic. One controller stated at a Wings seminar
years ago that most of the time he has the radar set to block low-level VFR returns
'cause they clutter the screen too much. As he put it "The area around the Solberg
VOR looks like a beehive. You're all gonna crash and I don't wanna see it."

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

I haven't flown around NY. I have dealt with Tampa and Miami .. both of whom
were helpful.


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


OtisWinslow wrote:

There can be a lot of VFR traffic cruising around under the B space. It's
a good idea to just talk to ATC and get their help.

I've only dealt with Orlando and New York. New York would rather not deal
with you
most of the time. Even when they politely acknowledge your presence, they
are usually
too busy to advise you about other traffic. One controller stated at a
Wings seminar
years ago that most of the time he has the radar set to block low-level
VFR returns
'cause they clutter the screen too much. As he put it "The area around the
Solberg
VOR looks like a beehive. You're all gonna crash and I don't wanna see
it."

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
been looking for it.

OtisWinslow wrote:

I haven't flown around NY. I have dealt with Tampa and Miami .. both of
whom were helpful.

I fly around NY, and have found the controllers typically quite helpful to
VFR traffic. In fact, I once surprised a VFR-only pilot in our club with
how helpful they are. We were departing Caldwell for the NJ shore in an
aircraft w/o a GPS (it has since been upgraded, of course {8^). His plan
was to fly around the class B to the west. I suggested "through", which
surprised him a little.

But a quick request to TRACON got us not only entry, but a vector to Colts
Neck (which we couldn't receive at our current position/altitude).

As I said, they're very helpful.

There have been a few exceptions, but these were all (as far as I can
recall) recognizably high-workload situations for them.

But this raises a question about which I keep forgetting. I was once IFRing
into Linden - an uncontrolled airport right next to Newark - in VMC. ATC
wanted me to cancel as early as possible of course, and I was perfectly
willing to do so. I just wanted to be below the class B first, but - at
least where I was - the floor was below ATC's MVA. So I cancelled, but I
felt a little odd being in class B having never received explicit clearance
into it.

Silly of me?

- Andrew

But this raises a question about which I keep forgetting. I was once IFRing
into Linden - an uncontrolled airport right next to Newark - in VMC. ATC
wanted me to cancel as early as possible of course, and I was perfectly
willing to do so. I just wanted to be below the class B first, but - at
least where I was - the floor was below ATC's MVA. So I cancelled, but I
felt a little odd being in class B having never received explicit clearance
into it.

Silly of me?

You were on a clearance when you entered Class B. That would be good enough for me.

Andrew Gideon wrote:

But a quick request to TRACON got us not only entry, but a vector to Colts
Neck (which we couldn't receive at our current position/altitude).

As I said, they're very helpful.

That's different. The original poster was suggesting that you request traffic
advisories while under the class-B floor. In my experience, you won't get VFR traffic
advisories from NY ATC.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

One inch under the floor is okay. The area under class B is often
constricted, so it can help to get flight following. Whether ATC has a right
to do it or not, controllers regularly assign altitudes to VFR traffic for
whatever reasons of their own.