Speedbrakes for a Bonanza: Opinions?

Dave Butler ) wrote:

Peter R. wrote:
Dave Butler ) wrote:


One more thing: I should have added that they are vacuum powered, so put an
additional load on your vacuum pump.


Really? Are they the first generation? The Precision Flight
speedbrakes being sold now are driven by electricity.

Yes, really. I don't know what generation.

That "Really?" wasn't meant as a question of your fact; rather it was
simply an incredulous "Wow! Vacuum powered? That's gotta be a lot of
extra demand on the vacuum system."

Didn't know there were electrical ones.

Just goes to show you that occasionally some technological advances do
make their way into mainstream over twenty years time.


--
Peter

They're not a bad idea on some aircraft, but Bonanzas, with their 154K gear
speeds, really don't need them. I also think that shock-cooling is an
overrated thing, but that's another discussion.

- Mark

markjenn ) wrote:

They're not a bad idea on some aircraft, but Bonanzas, with their 154K gear
speeds, really don't need them.

In his Avweb articles (posted in this thread), John Deakin expressed the
same opinion.

The reason I was considering them had to do with the type of airports in
which I fly. The majority of my flying is for Angel Flight Northeast,
which brings me into Teterboro and Boston Logan frequently. If I could
fly at 160-170 all the way to the outer marker, it would certainly make
fitting in to the traffic flow much easier.

But, cost is certainly an issue and if I am lacking in skills to slow
the aircraft down, then this is something I should explore. I was going
to take a Bonanza Proficiency course last October, but unfortunately a
cylinder cracked and started this extended maintenance period.

I also think that shock-cooling is an overrated thing, but that's
another discussion.

I am certainly too low time to have any experience with this, so I have
to rely on others' experiences.

The only fact that sort of sways me into the shock cooling camp is what
Cape Air does with their Cessna 402s. The head of our local flight
school used to fly with Cape Air and told me about their strict policy
of using all drag-inducing devices to descend long before they reduce
power. As a result of demonstrated engine reliability, Cape Air was
able to receive a TBO extension for their C402 engines.

This policy was discussed in an Aviation Consumer article last year.


--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:
: The only fact that sort of sways me into the shock cooling camp is what
: Cape Air does with their Cessna 402s. The head of our local flight
: school used to fly with Cape Air and told me about their strict policy
: of using all drag-inducing devices to descend long before they reduce
: power. As a result of demonstrated engine reliability, Cape Air was
: able to receive a TBO extension for their C402 engines.

I've never seen a Cape Air plane flying above 1500'. Usually Cape Approach,
or Hyannis/Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket tower calls 'em as traffic "well
below" me.

I will ask about their engine management procedures - I know quite a few Cape
Air pilots - but I don't remember them doing anything out of the ordinary.
--
Aaron C.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
markjenn ) wrote:

They're not a bad idea on some aircraft, but Bonanzas, with their 154K
gear
speeds, really don't need them.

In his Avweb articles (posted in this thread), John Deakin expressed the
same opinion.

The reason I was considering them had to do with the type of airports in
which I fly. The majority of my flying is for Angel Flight Northeast,
which brings me into Teterboro and Boston Logan frequently. If I could
fly at 160-170 all the way to the outer marker, it would certainly make
fitting in to the traffic flow much easier.

While the Bonanza is a slippery devil, they're not that hard to bleed off
speed when you have a few miles from the FAF.

But, cost is certainly an issue and if I am lacking in skills to slow
the aircraft down, then this is something I should explore. I was going
to take a Bonanza Proficiency course last October, but unfortunately a
cylinder cracked and started this extended maintenance period.

You'll get much more, and enduring, "mileage" from the BPPP
(http://www.bppp.org/main.asp) and from the Advanced Pilot Seminars
http://www.advancedpilot.com/course.html (I take it you have GAMIjectors in
your Bonanza??)

Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow ) wrote:

You'll get much more, and enduring, "mileage" from the BPPP
(http://www.bppp.org/main.asp) and from the Advanced Pilot Seminars
http://www.advancedpilot.com/course.html

I most definitely plan on taking the BPPP course as soon as the engine
is comfortably broken in.


(I take it you have GAMIjectors in your Bonanza??)

Yes, as well as Tornado Alley's turbo-normalization system.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow ) wrote:

You'll get much more, and enduring, "mileage" from the BPPP
(http://www.bppp.org/main.asp) and from the Advanced Pilot Seminars
http://www.advancedpilot.com/course.html

I most definitely plan on taking the BPPP course as soon as the engine
is comfortably broken in.


(I take it you have GAMIjectors in your Bonanza??)

Yes, as well as Tornado Alley's turbo-normalization system.

Then you'll definitely want to take the Advanced Pilot Seminar, so as to
keep your new engine in prime shape.

Which model Bo do you have? I have a B36TC but swapped the engine at TBO
for a Millennium TN IO-550, all done by the Western Skyways
http://www.westernskyways.com/turbo_es.html


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:22:13 -0500, Peter R.
wrote:

But, cost is certainly an issue and if I am lacking in skills to slow
the aircraft down, then this is something I should explore.


Why not build the skills? It'll probably cost less, you'll be a
better pilot overall, and I'll bet you have fun doing it. If your
ever deep in failures, the skill will help you more than a gadget ever
will, i.e. save you life.

..02
z

The reason I was considering them had to do with the type of airports in
which I fly. The majority of my flying is for Angel Flight Northeast,
which brings me into Teterboro and Boston Logan frequently. If I could
fly at 160-170 all the way to the outer marker, it would certainly make
fitting in to the traffic flow much easier.

Well, I'm all for being a good citizen, but spending tens of thousands of
dollars to make ATC's job a little easier seems like money poorly spent to
me. You should be able to be in 65% cruise until the OM, pull power back a
few inches, drop the gear, and sail down the ILS at about 140K or so. On
short final, you can pull the power back to 15", pull the nose up to bleed
speed to full-flap speed, drop the flaps, and you'll come right down and
make the 2nd taxiway. ATC will think you're a pro. I really don't think
the engine will have any issue with this operation at all.

But, cost is certainly an issue and if I am lacking in skills to slow
the aircraft down, then this is something I should explore. I was going
to take a Bonanza Proficiency course last October, but unfortunately a
cylinder cracked and started this extended maintenance period.

I've done the BPPP twice. Money very well spent. After this course, you
will be able to handle the airplane well enough without speed brakes for any
reasonable ATC situation.

Personally, if I had $15K burning a hole in my pocket for IFR Bonanza mods,
I'd go for ice protection long before speed brakes.

- Mark

markjenn ) wrote:

Personally, if I had $15K burning a hole in my pocket for IFR Bonanza mods,
I'd go for ice protection long before speed brakes.

To be fair, Mark, the speedbrakes from Precision Flight are US $4,100,
plus 35 hours installation labor, not 15k. However, I have learned
enough in the last few days to agree in principle with your point.

BTW, this Bonanza is equipped with TKS Weeping Wing, but the previous
owner shows me an invoice that was higher than 15k for that mod.

--
Peter