Control input during loop

Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang? Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

Hey -- who you callin' "random"?

We's experts here, doncha know? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang?

You need to read more closely. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.

Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

That applies to pretty much every question ever posed here. What's your
point?

Pete

.. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.


Thanks Peter.................You'd think after over 2000 hours in the bird, I'd
know............but then ask my wife, she knows better than myself sometimes
(rimshot!).
VL

Let me throw a dog in this fight )

For example in the P-51. You are trimmed up for cruise and decide to
do a loop. You drop the nose and pick up air speed. If you were
trimmed for straight an level flight then as you pick up A/S you need
to put in left rudder to keep the ball centered.

As you pull up and airspeed bleeds off, you then relax the left rudder
and put in right rudder to counteract the engine torque at the lower
A/S keeping the ball centered.

This normally is an automatic use of rudders and you don't have to
think right or left rudder, just use the rudders to keep the ball
centered.

The amount of rudder used in a P-51 with the long nose and high power,
is more than you would use in a Cessna or Piper of course but same use
of controls is required.

In the "Spam Can", always flew the bird in a coordinated manner where
I wanted it to go and never thought about the control position needed
to make it do what I wanted.

If you let the ball get out of center and pulled high "G's", then the
bird would snap pretty easy (and quick).

And a nice day to all

Big John


On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:02:17 +0100, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Wouldn't he kinda know what the inputs for a loop were if he were flying a
Mustang? Or at least have a more qualified contact to ask than a random
shot in a newsgroup?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:kzumb.24688$Tr4.49151@attbi_s03...
220 and 270?!?! Criminy, what are you flying?

Not sure what he's flying now, but the last time I saw Mr. Lenoch fly, he
was in a P-51D Mustang.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Right. Sorry. My mistake. I need to read more closely next time. In the
Pitts, I can comment. I'm totally out of my depth with a Mustang. :-)

Shawn
"MLenoch" wrote in message
...
. He knows what the inputs are. He's asking
WHY he needs to use them.


Thanks Peter.................You'd think after over 2000 hours in the
bird, I'd
know............but then ask my wife, she knows better than myself
sometimes
(rimshot!).
VL

In article , Big John
wrote:

For example in the P-51. You are trimmed up for cruise and decide to
do a loop. You drop the nose and pick up air speed.

John, are you saying a stripped down civilian P-51 cannot pull up from
level flight into a vertical loop without first diving for additional
airspeed?

John, are you saying a stripped down civilian P-51 cannot pull up from
level flight into a vertical loop without first diving for additional
airspeed?



Yes........cruise speed in a Mustang is 240 mph and a loop is flown at 300 mph.
You can try it, but you'll be very ragged at the top. You might even fall
out!!
VL

In article , MLenoch
wrote:

John, are you saying a stripped down civilian P-51 cannot pull up from
level flight into a vertical loop without first diving for additional
airspeed?

Yes........cruise speed in a Mustang is 240 mph and a loop is flown at 300
mph.
You can try it, but you'll be very ragged at the top. You might even fall
out!!

How many G pull is that?
Do you maintain a steady g throughout the pull?

It flies best with an initial pull of 4 G. G is not constant during the loop.
It may be half a G at the top. On cooler days, I can fly the loop at 3 Gs for
the initial pull; it is easier on the 50+ year old wing. But, when not doing
low level airshow loops, 3 G loops are always OK at higher altitudes. The
problem is getting too slow at the top, which is uncomfortable during an
airshow display.
VL

mlenoch

Sounds like you are current in bird. Just took my shoes off to count
and last flew the bird 54 years ago at Miho Japan (35 Ftr Sq, 8th Ftr
Gp) )

Flew D10 to D30's and K's. Had guns and full load of ammo and armor
plate behind pilot. This additonal weight required a little more speed
as I remember (maybe 325-350???)

Slow on top and G's causes the laminer flow wing to stall (and bird
snap) as sounds like you have found out ) Inverted spins took some
altitude to recover.

During WWII birds were red lined at 505 mph. We got a directive about
1947 that reduced the red line to 450 mph to put less wear and tear on
the birds. Are you still using the 450?

We used 61-3000 and 145 octane fuel for take off and were told that
that power was needed to keep the engine clean?

Talking to a jock at Ellington some years ago, he said the 51's now
were using 45-50 inches for T/O (easier on engines)? Or may be the
lower octane fuel available now???

I enjoyed my 650 hours in the bird.

Big John

On 27 Oct 2003 02:53:33 GMT, (MLenoch) wrote:

It flies best with an initial pull of 4 G. G is not constant during the loop.
It may be half a G at the top. On cooler days, I can fly the loop at 3 Gs for
the initial pull; it is easier on the 50+ year old wing. But, when not doing
low level airshow loops, 3 G loops are always OK at higher altitudes. The
problem is getting too slow at the top, which is uncomfortable during an
airshow display.
VL