Liability Insurance for a Winch Operation?

Remember the "spectator" injury during a launch at the national
contest in Tonopah years ago.


I remember Tonopah well...

I agree that winching can be much safer than aerotow. It is very
important that you get experienced people to train you before starting
up a winch operation. There was no additional charge to our liability
coverage for adding a winch launch to our operation. That was many
years ago tho.

Boggs

On Mar 6, 10:01*pm, T wrote:

Remember the "spectator" injury during a launch at the national
contest in Tonopah years ago.

T

I do remember. That operation would have violated a major rule of
winch launch. That rule is no one or thing can occupy an exclusion
area between the glider and winch. If someone enters the exclusion
area, the launch is held until the "deck" is clear. The exclusion
area will have slightly different definitions depending on airfield
layout but it is designed to prevent Tonopah-like accidents even in
extreme loss of control situations.

Aero tow operations would be well advised to copy this rule.

This concept has been extended to the hook-up operation by using Tost
quick-links. The strop/safety rope is attached to the glider without
being attached to the winch rope. The final safety rope-winch rope
connection is made by someone standing out of harm's way and then only
when the pilot signals readiness. This way inadvertent rope motion
can't put the hook-up/wing runner at risk.

Winch operations have very carefully thought out safety procedures
which must be scrupulously observed. It's easier to get people to
obey safety rules with winch launch since it LOOKS dangerous even
though it isn't.

Bill, I find that interesting. I have never seen that done in many winch
operations at different sites in the UK, and we have a different practice
(from the remote hook up) to avoid a different scenario.

Do you have a complete set of your winch safety precautions? I would be
interested to compare it with our UK norms (not that we have a complete
detailed set all in one place covering all UK operations – but we have
some national ones, and I have seen quite a few operations in practice).

Regards – Chris N.

At 17:31 07 March 2012, Bill D wrote:
I do remember. That operation would have violated a major rule of
winch launch. That rule is no one or thing can occupy an exclusion
area between the glider and winch. If someone enters the exclusion
area, the launch is held until the "deck" is clear. The exclusion
area will have slightly different definitions depending on airfield
layout but it is designed to prevent Tonopah-like accidents even in
extreme loss of control situations.

Aero tow operations would be well advised to copy this rule.

This concept has been extended to the hook-up operation by using Tost
quick-links. The strop/safety rope is attached to the glider without
being attached to the winch rope. The final safety rope-winch rope
connection is made by someone standing out of harm's way and then only
when the pilot signals readiness. This way inadvertent rope motion
can't put the hook-up/wing runner at risk.

Winch operations have very carefully thought out safety procedures
which must be scrupulously observed. It's easier to get people to
obey safety rules with winch launch since it LOOKS dangerous even
though it isn't.

On Mar 7, 7:13*pm, Chris Nicholas wrote:
Bill, I find that interesting. I have never seen that done in many winch
operations at different sites in the UK, and we have a different practice
(from the remote hook up) to avoid a different scenario.

Do you have a complete set of your winch safety precautions? *I would be
interested to compare it with our UK norms (not that we have a complete
detailed set all in one place covering all UK operations – but we have
some national ones, and I have seen quite a few operations in practice).

Regards – Chris N.

At 17:31 07 March 2012, Bill D wrote:
*I do remember. *That operation would have violated a major rule of







winch launch. *That rule is no one or thing can occupy an exclusion
area between the glider and winch. *If someone enters the exclusion
area, the launch is held until the "deck" is clear. *The exclusion
area will have slightly different definitions depending on airfield
layout but it is designed to prevent Tonopah-like accidents even in
extreme loss of control situations.

Aero tow operations would be well advised to copy this rule.

This concept has been extended to the hook-up operation by using Tost
quick-links. *The strop/safety rope is attached to the glider without
being attached to the winch rope. *The final safety rope-winch rope
connection is made by someone standing out of harm's way and then only
when the pilot signals readiness. *This way inadvertent rope motion
can't put the hook-up/wing runner at risk.

Winch operations have very carefully thought out safety procedures
which must be scrupulously observed. *It's easier to get people to
obey safety rules with winch launch since it LOOKS dangerous even
though it isn't.

Chris, I've sent you my "Field Operations Guide".

I recently re-read the BGA winch operation and training guides and
find them dramatically improved in the last few years.

Back to the original question - Except for insuring the winch itself
as an airport vehicle, we do not pay any extra insurance for our winch
operation. The coverage is for flight operations and there is no
distinction between aerotow or winch operations. USAIG is our carrier
and does not have the litney of restrictions and limitations that the
"group" plan has through the well known agent.

Bob

Bil, got it, thaanks. I will get back to you by email. Chris.

On Mar 7, 8:02*pm, RL wrote:
Back to the original question - Except for insuring the winch itself
as an airport vehicle, we do not pay any extra insurance for our winch
operation. The coverage is for flight operations and there is no
distinction between aerotow or winch operations. USAIG is our carrier
and does not have the litney of restrictions and limitations that the
"group" plan has through the well known agent.

Bob

I think the difference in the policies is Costello's policy keeps the
winch insurance in effect if you take the winch to a different
airfield whereas USAIG's winch coverage is part of your premises
insurance so it is only effective on your airfield. I could be out of
date on that.

http://aircrashed.com/cause/cLAX02LA231.shtml

Scary. Will keep this very much in mind at our contest this summer.

Sean
F2

Bill - Our winch operations are covered for off-site activity in the
same way aero-tow ops are covered if we were to fly from another
field.

Bob

On Mar 7, 11:33*pm, Bill D wrote:
On Mar 7, 8:02*pm, RL wrote:

I think the difference in the policies is Costello's policy keeps the
winch insurance in effect if you take the winch to a different
airfield whereas USAIG's winch coverage is part of your premises
insurance so it is only effective on your airfield. *I could be out of
date on that.