Runway Incursion and NASA form

"Koopas Ly" wrote in message
om...
What should I put under "Type of Event/Situation"? Was it actually a
runway
incursion? I wasn't ON runway 4R, only beyond the hold short bars between
4L and 4R.

I believe AOPA means that you should avoid putting incriminating information
on the identification strip (which is what you receive back and what you use
to prove you filed the form, so you can avoid enforcement action).

In your case, since enforcement action is highly unlikely, it probably
doesn't matter. However, generally speaking, what they mean is to write
something like "rollout after landing" to describe the situation, rather
than using a label that automatically implies a violation, like "runway
incursion" or even "failed to stop before hold line".

Put all the incriminating stuff in the actual report. Not the piece of
paper you might have to turn over to the FAA.

Pete

"Koopas Ly" wrote in message om...

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

Never hurts to fill out a NASA form. As others point out, it's not even necessary
to think you did anything wrong, however the immunity granted gives a big incentive
to bare your soul in the name of aviation safety.

People violate ATC instructions all the time. Unless this causes an error that the
controller would be dinged for and he needs to cover his butt, or you do something
exceedingly dangerous or stupid, nothing ever comes of it.

The hold lines mean absolutely nothing to ATC. The only thing that
matters is that you didn't actually get onto the runway, past the solid
white line. It is a quirk of the FAA about the hold lines and the
runway safety area. Air Traffic only cares about the solid white line.
Don't cross that and we don't care. Airports Division cares about the
runway safety area, which is defined by the hold short lines on the
taxiway and usually some kind of markers in the grass alongside the
runways at I think 150 feet from the centerline.

Koopas Ly wrote:
Hi all,

After a short local flight, I landed on 4L at HNL and forgot to hold
short of 4R. After I made the right turn on taxiway Echo from 4L, the
tower (sensing that I was taxiing a bit fast) tells me, in a rather
calm voice, "hold short of 4R!".

By that time, I had already crossed the 4R hold bars. I was not on
runway 4R, just between the hold bars and the runway edge. There was
neither departing nor landing traffic. I apologized, and the tower
told me to contact ground. Never heard from the tower again.

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

Thanks,
Alex

Newps wrote in message news:mENrb.161019$Tr4.433525@attbi_s03...
The hold lines mean absolutely nothing to ATC. The only thing that
matters is that you didn't actually get onto the runway, past the solid
white line. It is a quirk of the FAA about the hold lines and the
runway safety area. Air Traffic only cares about the solid white line.
Don't cross that and we don't care. Airports Division cares about the
runway safety area, which is defined by the hold short lines on the
taxiway and usually some kind of markers in the grass alongside the
runways at I think 150 feet from the centerline.


That's interesting. It would seem that all of the tower controllers
out there do not know this. I've witnessed more than one go around
instigated by a tower because another plane was just over the hold
short bars (but not on the runway proper). Just a few weeks ago I
heard the tower telling a student pilot that he could not land any
more traffic on the runway until the student moved his airplane 3 ft.
to clear the bars.

To be fair, I've only noticed this hyper-picky behavior since the FAA
started that runway incursion program several years back.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:

That's interesting. It would seem that all of the tower controllers
out there do not know this. I've witnessed more than one go around
instigated by a tower because another plane was just over the hold
short bars (but not on the runway proper).

That controller is an idiot.


Just a few weeks ago I
heard the tower telling a student pilot that he could not land any
more traffic on the runway until the student moved his airplane 3 ft.
to clear the bars.

We will tell the students what they are supposed to do, and that is to
stay behind the hold line. But if an airplane crosses the line do you
start sending traffic around? Not in a million years.



To be fair, I've only noticed this hyper-picky behavior since the FAA
started that runway incursion program several years back.

Tower managers who come from Centers are the worst to deal with.
They're all hot and bothered about trivialities like hold lines and
generally make life difficult for a tower controller. We had one here
for a few years, he really made the union membership rise.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:54:10 GMT, Newps wrote:

Air Traffic only cares about the solid white line.
Don't cross that and we don't care.

They =definitely= care at APA.

Mark Kolber
APA/Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
======================
email? Remove ".no.spam"

Koopas Ly wrote:

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

In this case, I think so.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.