ANOTHER airspace incursion in D.C.?

Ben Smith wrote:

N488RD is what I saw on TV yesterday. '66 M20E, looked pretty nice. Newer
paint scheme, 3 blade prop.

Based in Jacksonville.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

Ron, I couldn't agree more, the presentation and updating of the
ADIZ/FRZ/TFR data is a dangerous mess. Hell, I thought poorly of the
NOTAM system long before 9/11. Since then, it's been overloaded to
the point where I'm sure many don't read the damned NOTAMS because
it's too confusing.

However, in fairness to Jay, he's right too. If someone with a real
pilot certificate hasn't figured out by now that there is a FRZ
somewhere around Washington DC, and that person can't figure out that
they're headed right toward the middle of the city, then I don't
believe they should be behind the controls of an aircraft.

We've all had times when we weren't sure of our actual position
(mostly before GPS became common), but gosh, it's hard to miss a city.
And even if one had no idea of position within 10 miles of accuracy
(hard to imagine, but possible) one would at least know which headings
were more likely to in to danger than others.

We pilots are mere mortals. The NOTAM system is a relic of the
teletype days. Hell, all the FAA has to do is build something
resembling a few moderated news servers and they'd have a vast
improvement over what we're using now. Then allow for intelligent
clients to search the news database for relevant information by
geographical significance, and it would satisfy at least 90% of most
of the gripes we have today.

But, of course, knowing those cheerfully silly FAA planners, it'll
become a monster project with all sorts of overhead and maintenance,
it'll be designed for the next five decades of flight, and it'll cost
so much that it'll fall on the floor as too impractical.

Sigh.


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

but gosh, it's hard to miss a city.

Actually, it's quite rural around the boundaries of the DC ADIZ.

But 600? That's ineptitude on a grand scale

Well, something's broke. Maybe it's not the pilots? Last time I was in the DC
area ATC was talking about scrambling jets becuase a pilot was confused about
which code he was supposed to use (they gave him two - one at the start of the
flight for the ADIZ and one when he was approaching it)

I'd like to know how many terrorists were stopped by these intercepts.

It's real easy to sit on a high horse. But you make mistakes too. (and by
"you" I mean every reader here, including me) And the mistake you're most
likely to make next is the one you don't think you'll ever make because you
know better.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On 14 Nov 2003 00:21:07 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:

but gosh, it's hard to miss a city.

Actually, it's quite rural around the boundaries of the DC ADIZ.

Don't tell that to me. I live in this "rural" area under the edge of
the ADIZ and it's getting less so every day. Anyway, the boundaries
of the ADIZ are one thing, the boundaries of the FRZ within the ADIZ
are another.

I didn't write this next quote.
But 600? That's ineptitude on a grand scale

Well, something's broke. Maybe it's not the pilots? Last time I was in the DC
area ATC was talking about scrambling jets becuase a pilot was confused about
which code he was supposed to use (they gave him two - one at the start of the
flight for the ADIZ and one when he was approaching it)

What's broken is the assumption that ATC is staffed and equipped well
enough to handle the ADIZ and FRZ rules *reliably*. For that matter,
civil aviation in general isn't well equipped to handle this ignorant
bit of policy.

I'd like to know how many terrorists were stopped by these intercepts.

It's a Pink Elephant defense: Seen any Pink Elephants? No? Then it
must be working.

It's real easy to sit on a high horse. But you make mistakes too. (and by
"you" I mean every reader here, including me) And the mistake you're most
likely to make next is the one you don't think you'll ever make because you
know better.

As with anything, it's not the making of mistakes, it's the magnitude
of the mistake and how far you go before it is discovered. I won't
deny making mistakes. I've filed my share of ASRS reports. The
difference is that I am always looking for ways to cross check my
decisions. Hopefully, I won't go too far before I discover my
mistakes.

Folks, despite our best wishes, we can't go flying the way the we did
in the last century. Temporary restrictions are popping up all over
the place. Anyone who flies a cross country trip without previously
checking up on these things is just asking for trouble. This is a
mistake on par with not preflighting an aircraft before the first
flight of the day. To me, this is like forgetting to get dressed in
the morning before walking outdoors.

Anyway, for those of you who are not based anywhere near the DC ADIZ
here is my recommendation:

File IFR.

And if you don't have the rating, I strongly recommend you get one
before flying here. I say this because even if you're flying VFR in
the ADIZ, Potomac Approach doesn't care. You're still practically on
an IFR flight plan anyway, with none of the privileges or services an
IFR flight receives. Flying VFR, and navigating by landmarks in
particular, is just asking for trouble --unless you're based here and
are already very familiar with the area.

Sorry folks, that's the way it is. If you don't like it, please
complain to your congress critters. I have. I got a letter from
Senator Mikulski and a staggeringly ignorant form letter from Admiral
Loy. We aren't making enough noise about this issue. Until we do,
this aviation paranoia will get worse, not better.


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

Anyway, for those of you who are not based anywhere near the DC ADIZ
here is my recommendation:

File IFR.



Yeah, that's the "safe" way. But having done it VFR (to Gaithersberg) I can
say VFR is not a big deal. Just be sure to get your squawk code before
entering. If you're on flight following, that makes it easier. If you popped
up (like from 1500 feet), do so eariler rather than later, to give them time to
screw up and fix it again.


As with anything, it's not the making of mistakes, it's the magnitude
of the mistake and how far you go before it is discovered.


Yes. But in this case, the "magnitude" of the mistake is artificially inflated
by the stupid system. It still falls on the pilot, but let there be no mistake
here - if the rules said that pilots had to wiggle their wings three times and
toss a carrot out the window before gaining admittance to the zone, not doing
so would be an "equally" big mistake. For the same inane reason.


This is a
mistake on par with not preflighting an aircraft before the first
flight of the day. To me, this is like forgetting to get dressed in
the morning before walking outdoors.


Not preflighting can get you killed due to the laws of physics. Not getting
dressed (at least on a nice day) has no consequences other than the arbitrary
and artificial ones society imposes. Ditto this %@*$ TFR situation.

There is a difference.

What's broken is the assumption that ATC is staffed...

What's broken is the assumption that this really DOES stop pink elephants.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message ...

File IFR.

IFR won't protect you from the FRZ by the way.

On 14 Nov 2003 15:23:28 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:

What's broken is the assumption that ATC is staffed...

What's broken is the assumption that this really DOES stop pink elephants.

The assumption that there in fact ARE Pink Elephants (ie. Suicide
Terrorists flying GA aircraft) is what's wrong here. We've never seen
one. They would seem to be highly improbable creatures.

The defense against these raging Pink Elephants of which very little
is known with confidence, not even their supposedly pink color, is
pointless. The notion that by quietly hiding secret post-it notes
around the city, telling everyone, including Pink Elephants, to stay
away is worse. Meanwhile, we're supposed to let Gray Elephants roam
freely, while inspecting their riders's shoes to make sure there is
nothing pink about the shoes.

(In other words, we aren't even certain if the motive is terrorism,
and that by posting a "temporary" ADIZ around DC which we don't bother
charting, these "Pink Elephants" would be deterred. Further, airlines
continue to fly as if nothing happened, although we inspect the
passengers, but not the food service or cleaning crews, for all sorts
of evidence of weaponry)

Have I made you gentle readers cry in pain yet?


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

(Teacherjh) wrote in message ...
if the rules said that pilots had to wiggle their wings three times and
toss a carrot out the window before gaining admittance to the zone, not doing
so would be an "equally" big mistake. For the same inane reason.

You bad! I durn near snorted tea all over my laptop at this.

Imagine the radio transmissions:
"Potomac approach, Cessna 12345 over XXX for Leesburg, with
carrot and wiggling!"

Not preflighting can get you killed due to the laws of physics. Not getting
dressed (at least on a nice day) has no consequences other than the arbitrary
and artificial ones society imposes.

Sunburn, chiggers, and mosquito bites

Sydney

Jake Brodsky wrote in message . ..

Sorry folks, that's the way it is. If you don't like it, please
complain to your congress critters. I have. I got a letter from
Senator Mikulski and a staggeringly ignorant form letter from Admiral
Loy. We aren't making enough noise about this issue. Until we do,
this aviation paranoia will get worse, not better.

Jake,

Would you care to share what you found staggeringly ignorant
about Loy's form letter?

Just curious.
Sydney

On 14 Nov 2003 17:44:21 -0800, (Snowbird)
wrote:

Would you care to share what you found staggeringly ignorant
about Loy's form letter?

It's at home. I hope my kids haven't scribbled on it yet. I'll try
to find it and post it here for all to cry over.


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A