It was 62 years ago today...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:53:57 GMT, Rob Perkins wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:28:05 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

what happened? (too lazy to put in on google)

!!!!!!

hu?

Aside from 11 Sep 2001, 7 Dec 1941 counts as the largest-casualty
surprise attack on United States soil in all its history.

So the date is important to whom? correct.

Almost 3000 people died when the Japanese, who (I'm told) thought that
a preemptive attack would cow the U.S., sank a goodly portion of the
fleet based at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, which shook the U.S. out of
protectionism and brought it into the second World War.

Hm, I don't have the details, but isn't there a stoy about the Japanese
ambassador to the USA being late delivering the declaration of war?

(Y'know, that tiny thing Germans don't study anymore?)


*hihi*

In short, the chain of events which freed Austria from Naziism started
^^^^^^^
that day, Martin.
^^^^^^^^

yes, very funny.

Rob

martin

--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 21:03:41 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

Hm, I don't have the details, but isn't there a stoy about the Japanese
ambassador to the USA being late delivering the declaration of war?

Yeah. He was late. Wouldn't have changed the outcome. That was the day
that brought the U.S. into the war, and the first time in a longlong
time that the U.S. had had its backside handed to it by an aggressive
enemy.

And, yes, I don't think the outcome of WWII would have been a free
Austria without the U.S. in the middle of it. Roosevelt was one of the
principal founders of the United Nations, after all. I don't think
Stalin, Degualle, and Churchill would have been able to pull it off;
Stalin would not have come to the table. And even in '45 Britain could
not have stood alone against the U.S.S.R.'s creation of satellite
states. Had Russia freed Austria it would not have been the neutral
republic it was for the last half of the 20th.

Rob

Rob Perkins wrote:

In short, the chain of events which freed Austria from Naziism
started that day, Martin.

Funny, I'd say the chain of events began two years earlier, when England
and France declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland. The US
participation was simply a later link in that chain.

Or you could keep going back to the rise of Nazism, or probably earlier
links.

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
Rob Perkins wrote:

In short, the chain of events which freed Austria from Naziism
started that day, Martin.

Funny, I'd say the chain of events began two years earlier, when England
and France declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland. The US
participation was simply a later link in that chain.

In short, the chain of events which freed Austria from Naziism
started that day, Martin.

Funny, I'd say the chain of events began two years earlier, when England
and France declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland. The US
participation was simply a later link in that chain.

Technically true, but it is unlikely that France and England would be
democracies today, had Japan not jolted us into the war.

Thus, some links in the chain are more important than others...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Rob Perkins" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:28:05 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

what happened? (too lazy to put in on google)

!!!!!!

Aside from 11 Sep 2001, 7 Dec 1941 counts as the largest-casualty
surprise attack on United States soil in all its history.

Almost 3000 people died when the Japanese, who (I'm told) thought that
a preemptive attack would cow the U.S., sank a goodly portion of the
fleet based at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, which shook the U.S. out of
protectionism and brought it into the second World War.

(Y'know, that tiny thing Germans don't study anymore?)

In short, the chain of events which freed Austria from Naziism started
that day, Martin.

I don't think so. The single biggest event that really started the chain of
events leading to the end of the war was Hitler's decision to attack the
Soviet Union.
It was Hitler's biggest mistake - made the same mistake as Napoleon. The
mistake ended up destroying their armies. The Germans put their toughest
soldiers on the Eastern Front, leaving "softer" soldiers for the D Day
landing troops to face. Being in France was a holiday compared to the
Eastern Front.

Hollywood does a poor job or portraying history. I gather they a doing a
film , starring Tom Cruise about an American pilot in the Battle of Britain,
10 July - 31 Oct 1940 which will have him winning the battle single handed.
Not bad considering there were only 7 pilots from the US.

It reminds me of another movie U571 which misrepresents historical fact. But
hey, why let truth get in the way of a good story.

Funny, you could say the same about Iraq too.

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:42:58 -0000, "Phil McAverty"
wrote:

It reminds me of another movie U571 which misrepresents historical fact. But
hey, why let truth get in the way of a good story.

In their interviews I think the directors and producers of U571 made
clear that they were more interested in a good story.

Rob, who rented the DVD :-)

("Phil McAverty" wrote)
I don't think so. The single biggest event that really started the chain
of events leading to the end of the war was Hitler's decision to attack the
Soviet Union.

It was Hitler's biggest mistake - made the same mistake as Napoleon. The
mistake ended up destroying their armies. The Germans put their toughest
soldiers on the Eastern Front, leaving "softer" soldiers for the D Day
landing troops to face. Being in France was a holiday compared to the
Eastern Front.


If I have to rank this - I think Russia had more to do with the German
defeat in WWII than did the involvement of the US.

What Russia and Germany did to each other on the Eastern Front, from
1941-1945, is staggering to our western sensibilities.

Ultimately, Russia defeated the Germans ...with our help.

(Family note)
My Uncle didn't land on the Normandy beaches on D-Day, he went over a few
days later.
Uncle Jack enjoyed saying - "I beat Eisenhower to France!"

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
A few toasts:

To my Father's generation, for saving the world...

To those of my Father's generation who paid the ultimate price
for our freedom...

To all those of my generation, who as a result were never born..

To my hero, my next door neighbor Ken Taylor, who was a back seat gunner
in one of the SBD dive bombers that sank the Jap carriers at the battle
of Midway. Ken was later put ashore with the rest of his air group on
Guadalcanal and got shelled virtually point blank by Jap battleships. He
is one of a quickly-vanishing few WWII vets still with us. If you know
one, don't miss a chance to say "thanks."
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Jay Honeck" writes:

The date that shall live in infamy...

Well, WWII started a few years earlier for most of the world...