Ever stuck your neck out too far? And got away with it?

(Teacherjh) wrote in message ...

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.


I'd have to assume this is military or life-and-death missions. If not, I'd
question your risk/reward equation.

Jose

Jose
Well, you are polite about it and I appreciate that! If you think
about it, every time a pilot takes off it can very quickly turn into a
life or death situation. I've experienced 18 actual emergencies in
flight that I can relate to and have entered in my logbook. Most were
mechanical failures of some sort and I'm thankful that only one person
aside from myself was ever injured in the process.
No I don't make flying junk a habit. When critical components fail
after being replaced, whose fault is it? The pilot? The mechanic who
did the work? The facility who did the overhaul? The original design?
That is what the legal profession thrives on.
As I near the end of my flying days I think back on places I've flown,
the conditions, the equipment and the problems. Would not hesitate to
go back and try it again.
What pilot doesn't have some trepidation on the first solo? Or on the
first long XC, or the first actual IMC? The only difference in a new
pilot and an old gray hair like me is experience. I've never done a
trans-pac nor a trans-atlantic ferry flight and I am not particularly
interested yet pilots with less than a thousand hours will take it on
just for the experience.
So, who is the daredevil? What is their risk/reward ratio? To this
point I have tried to make a calculated decision for any given flight
and if it was risky I did even more thought to determine if it could
be done safely. I guess the problem is when you try to define what is
too risky or safe?
I see videos of guys hanging off the side of a cliff and even sleeping
there while they do a climb. Sure as hell will never see me doing
that! Yet I have made over a hundred free fall parachute jumps and see
no particular danger in that as long as I pay attention to my
equipment and conditions. I've got over a thousand logged hours
underwater yet feel threatened by diving in some areas of the world
where locals swim all the time.
Who is to say what is safe and what is not or what is stupid or not?
Interesting subject here and a great place to exchange views and
thoughts. If only some of them could not be such blind flamers......
best regards
SelwayKid

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.


I'd have to assume this is military or life-and-death missions. If not, I'd
question your risk/reward equation.

Jose

Jose
Well, you are polite about it and I appreciate that! If you think
about it, every time a pilot takes off it can very quickly turn into a
life or death situation. I've experienced 18 actual emergencies in
flight that I can relate to and have entered in my logbook. Most were
mechanical failures of some sort and I'm thankful that only one person
aside from myself was ever injured in the process....


The way you had phrased it (and the context in which you replied) made it seem
as if flying an airplane on fumes was just a routine part of professional
flying. I'll grant that the more one flies, the more one runs into the edge of
the envelope simply due to greater exposure. This is true for mechanical
failures that are not the pilots fault as well as for errors in judgement by
the pilot in question. More flying, more chances to make errors. Fact of
life.

The comment however appears to portray a cavalier attitude, and this raised my
eyebrow. You make a reference to "trying conditions" leaving it to our
imagination what they may be - what conditions would lead you to continue to
fly on fumes. I can think of a few (ocean crossing with unexpected headwinds,
fuel leak over mountains, bombing or rescue run in wartime, stuff like that), h
owever in most cases landing at the nearest airport to fuel up long before the
one becmes reliant on Lady Luck would be indicated. Not doing so under those
circumstances would have been called "stupid" in the accident investigation,
no?


To this point I have tried to make a calculated decision for
any given flight and if it was risky I did even more thought
to determine if it could be done safely.


We all do that. In my case, when the outcome (though lucky) takes me too close
to the edge, I do not treat it as "just a pilot working the best way I can..."
I ask myself "what the #$* was I thinking??" and analyse the answer.


....Yet I have made over a hundred free fall parachute jumps and see
no particular danger in that as long as I pay attention to my
equipment and conditions.


What would your reaction on rec.parachuting be to somebody who said that he
can't even count the times he's landed with a chute that lines missing, holes,
or in (too) high winds? (I've only jumped once, back before Lake Elsinore
flooded the airport, so don't really know the edge of that envelope)

It is that to which I was reacting.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

(Teacherjh) wrote in message ...

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.


I'd have to assume this is military or life-and-death missions. If not, I'd
question your risk/reward equation.

Jose

Jose
Well, you are polite about it and I appreciate that! If you think
about it, every time a pilot takes off it can very quickly turn into a
life or death situation. I've experienced 18 actual emergencies in
flight that I can relate to and have entered in my logbook. Most were
mechanical failures of some sort and I'm thankful that only one person
aside from myself was ever injured in the process....


The way you had phrased it (and the context in which you replied) made it seem
as if flying an airplane on fumes was just a routine part of professional
flying. I'll grant that the more one flies, the more one runs into the edge of
the envelope simply due to greater exposure. This is true for mechanical
failures that are not the pilots fault as well as for errors in judgement by
the pilot in question. More flying, more chances to make errors. Fact of
life.

The comment however appears to portray a cavalier attitude, and this raised my
eyebrow. You make a reference to "trying conditions" leaving it to our
imagination what they may be - what conditions would lead you to continue to
fly on fumes. I can think of a few (ocean crossing with unexpected headwinds,
fuel leak over mountains, bombing or rescue run in wartime, stuff like that), h
owever in most cases landing at the nearest airport to fuel up long before the
one becmes reliant on Lady Luck would be indicated. Not doing so under those
circumstances would have been called "stupid" in the accident investigation,
no?


To this point I have tried to make a calculated decision for
any given flight and if it was risky I did even more thought
to determine if it could be done safely.


We all do that. In my case, when the outcome (though lucky) takes me too close
to the edge, I do not treat it as "just a pilot working the best way I can..."
I ask myself "what the #$* was I thinking??" and analyse the answer.


...Yet I have made over a hundred free fall parachute jumps and see
no particular danger in that as long as I pay attention to my
equipment and conditions.


What would your reaction on rec.parachuting be to somebody who said that he
can't even count the times he's landed with a chute that lines missing, holes,
or in (too) high winds? (I've only jumped once, back before Lake Elsinore
flooded the airport, so don't really know the edge of that envelope)

It is that to which I was reacting.

Jose

Jose
The lake often flooded the airport even back in the late 50's when I
began jumping there!A lot of my flying was in remote areas, some were
not even mapped yet and many areas the fuel was iffy if it was even
available. there have been times when I was on fumes due to leaks of
one sort or other, or the possibility that the "restless natives" were
going to either use me for target practice, or put me in a cooking pot
if I landed at the wrong place/time.
There are many types of flight operations when an intentional light
fuel load is called for and if it gets cut too close, you end up
making an unscheduled landing. Crop dusting is a good example and I
have over 35 years doing that.
I'm sure if one were to ask, there are those times in nearly every
profession that require working close to the edge and takes judgement
based on experience to be done successfully. The more experience, the
finer the line is and with more chance of making errors.
Happy New Year!!
SelwayKid

(SelwayKid) wrote:

Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zowie... but aren't you the flamboyant swashbuckler.

Related to the infamous Capt Zoom Campbell, maybe?

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

RU ok wrote in message . ..
(SelwayKid) wrote:

Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zowie... but aren't you the flamboyant swashbuckler.

Related to the infamous Capt Zoom Campbell, maybe?

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

Hey downunder..... I wonder what it is with you guys who seem so
offended by someone who doesn't mind commenting on the real world of
professional aviation. Some of the most dangerous pilots I've flown
with were Ozies or Kiwis. They didn't show much common sense when it
came to sticking their necks out. Others have impressed me with their
high level of professionalism. Doesn't that seem the way in the world?
Some are good, some are bad, and the rest fall in between someplace.
You make me smile with the flamboyant swashbuckler zowie. If I were
perhaps I could make a fortune on TV or someplace?
Nope. I am just a highly experienced pilot with the advantage of
having flown in many countries doing a variety of missions with just
as broad a variety of aircraft.
As for being a staff writer....does it pay anything? g
Ol shy & Bashful

(SelwayKid) wrote:

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

Hey downunder..... I wonder what it is with you guys who seem so
offended by someone who doesn't mind commenting on the real world of
professional aviation. Some of the most dangerous pilots I've flown
with were Ozies or Kiwis. They didn't show much common sense when it
came to sticking their necks out. Others have impressed me with their
high level of professionalism. Doesn't that seem the way in the world?
Some are good, some are bad, and the rest fall in between someplace.
You make me smile with the flamboyant swashbuckler zowie. If I were
perhaps I could make a fortune on TV or someplace?
Nope. I am just a highly experienced pilot with the advantage of
having flown in many countries doing a variety of missions with just
as broad a variety of aircraft.
As for being a staff writer....does it pay anything? g
Ol shy & Bashful
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thou speaketh too loudly, sir.

The last self proclaimed "PRO" to sound off as loudly
as you.... was anything but "PROFESSIONAL".

BTW...
I'm not at all offended at your flakey antics, other than it's
a shame to see you give real professionals a black eye.


Main Entry: pro·fes·sion·al

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged
in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or
conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) :
exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike
manner in the workplace


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

The last self proclaimed "PRO" to sound off as loudly
as you.... was anything but "PROFESSIONAL".

BTW...
I'm not at all offended at your flakey antics, other than it's
a shame to see you give real professionals a black eye.

as is this moron who cannot even check his fuel loading

Thou speaketh too loudly, sir.

The last self proclaimed "PRO" to sound off as loudly
as you.... was anything but "PROFESSIONAL".

BTW...
I'm not at all offended at your flakey antics, other than it's
a shame to see you give real professionals a black eye.


Main Entry: pro·fes·sion·al

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged
in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or
conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) :
exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike
manner in the workplace


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight


Bob is entirely right here. Not a very professional thread at all. It
didn't read very good at all on the playback. Chalk it up to a little
too much Holiday merry-making. Hope nobody was offended.

Consider it "Withdrawn."
The aviation jury will disregard this thread, and pretend that it
never happened.
(well, professional lawyers get away with this...don't they?) ;-)

pacplyer - happy new year

"SelwayKid" wrote in message
om...
RU ok wrote in message
. ..
(SelwayKid) wrote:

Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zowie... but aren't you the flamboyant swashbuckler.

Related to the infamous Capt Zoom Campbell, maybe?

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

Hey downunder..... I wonder what it is with you guys who seem so
offended by someone who doesn't mind commenting on the real world of
professional aviation. Some of the most dangerous pilots I've flown
with were Ozies or Kiwis.

see matey

you orgasm on the danger instead of doing your job properly

an dangerous fool

Zowie... but aren't you the flamboyant swashbuckler.

Related to the infamous Capt Zoom Campbell, maybe?

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

Oh God, is this funny!
I just saw a movie on HBO: "Catch me if you can" starring Tom Hanks.
It's about an imposter doctor/airline pilot just like you know who.
Hysterical! Bob, I think Selway's gotta be zoom's long lost kid. When
you click on his name the delusional stories that pop up are
unmistakable.... LOL!

pacplyer - out

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...&output=gplain

SelwayKid wrote in message
. ..
"RT" wrote in message
...
SelwayKid wrote in message
. ..
"RT" wrote in message news:ba7sj1$praf8$1@ID-

Selway Kid - 22,000 hours of fun flying all over the world

Now you are trying to tell me that at the *start* (let alone
later)
of a
procedure turn you couldn't get back to the paddock? And you
(like
everyone else) were operating at *cruise*?

Is that what you're saying? What the hell were you flying? A
2-car
garage?

(Dusting, eh?)
HUH?

Um, sorry - a single "HUH?" is not a valid answer to 4
questions........

OK. Since you are being silly now let me attempt to answer your
questionable questions.
1. What do you mean by the start of a procedure turn? Are you
referring to a spray turn-around? Those are done according to the
terrain and surrounding obstacles as well as the type aircraft being
used.
2. Why should I return to any paddock since that is not what I am
spraying?
3. I am not in the habit of trying to fly as less than flying
airspeed. while spraying with fixed wing, we are normally flying at
cruise speed at an altitude of anywhere from 3' above the crops, to
perhaps 50' above them. Obviously if we are spraying trees we'll
adjust altitude accordingly. Our turn-around altitude will depend on
terrain and obstacles but is frequently within 6 feet of the tops of
trees and or powerlines.
If spraying with rotorcraft, the speed may be anything from just into
translational lift, to cruise. It will depend on the crops being
treated.
4. I didn't imply blue gums were not in OZ....here they are
generally
referred to as eucalyptus and are plentiful in many agricultural
areas
I work in.
5. I am not licensed to fly a two car garage. However, I have quite
a
bit of experience with the following agricultural aircraft; Pawnee,
C-188, Ag Cat, Fletcher, Thrush -piston and turbine, AirTractor
-piston and turbine, Bell helicopters 47/206, Hiller 12C&E piston and
turbine, Hughes 500, and a few multi engined aircraft equipped for ag
work.
I do hold an ATP and rated in ASMELS, Rotorcraft (Instrument) and
hold
5 instructor ratings. I have been licensed in at least a dozen
countries.
Does that satisfy your silly questions?
Huh?

*********************************

No, it doesn't actually. One of the things about the net is that
anyone
can appear/pretend to be anyone they like, even if they're in an iron
lung
in hospital.

A couple more silly questions for you, Selway "Kid", mate...

Where is the master switch on a Fletcher 300, and how does it operate?
And
don't bother to try to explain why you can't remember. How are the
booms
attached?
Pawnee: where is the fixed fire extinguisher fitted and how is it
actuated?
How many bungee cords are used?
AgCat: position of the oil reservoir?
C-188; where is the main fuel injection filter and how do you remove
it?

"I have been licensed in at least a dozen countries."

Name just the first 12, with dates.

"I am not in the habit of trying to fly as less than flying airspeed.
while
spraying with fixed wing"

REALLY! You mean all these other silly buggers still DO that - and
after
you've TOLD them?

"What do you mean by the start of a procedure turn? Are you referring
to a
spray turn-around? Those are done according to the terrain and
surrounding
obstacles as well as the type aircraft being used."

Oh really?

(Dusting, eh?)
HUH?

Huh - you don't know what that is?

"and a few multi engined aircraft equipped for ag work."

Details, please.....

1. What do you mean by the start of a procedure turn? Are you
referring to a spray turn-around?

but you say: "I do hold an ATP and rated in ASMELS, Rotorcraft
(Instrument)
and hold
5 instructor ratings."

*5* instructor ratings. What are they?
And you don't know what a procedure turn is????????????
And when did you do the theory for the ATPL - who with and why? (Erm,
note
ATP = airline transport pilot. While you may hold one, we're not
really
interested in your kinky habits. Try ATPL = as above licence)

"Why should I return to any paddock since that is not what I am
spraying?"

Que? And this is after an engine failure?

From your responses so far, if you have done as you say, you are a
statistical anomaly, as in something that doesn't exist.

A far more likely explanation is that you are either a pimply faced
kid (or
a fat and bald divorcee) amusing himself by abusing himself while
running
Micro$loths Flight Sim.

In the first case stop wasting everyones' time and go and do your
homework.
In the second case stop wasting everyones' time and look up the yellow
pages
for "Cathouse".

In either case stop wasting our bloody time, you ******.

Goodbye SelwayKid - I hope you leaned your lesson.