Career Change - Full-time CFI: Average Flight Hours per year?

If you were a few years younger, you might have considered the
military. However, maximum age for USAF pilot training is 30 years
old at time of entry, and the application process would take about a
year, and they don't give out waivers for cases like yours.

That's also assuming you have a 4-year degree (officers need college
degrees). In fact, to fly for most majors, having a degree is a major
factor (not part of minimum quals, but highly desirable--as in 95% of
new hires at the majors have college degrees),

"T" Tung
USAF, UAL, Boeing

On 12 Jan 2004 14:05:26 -0800, (Peter
Gibbons) wrote:

Background: I'm currently 30 years old with my IFR and about 190 hrs
TT. Currently working as a systems administrator/programmer, but
weighing my options are if I were to try to make a career out of
aviation. Yeah - crazy, right? Try sitting in front of a monitor for
8 hours a day in a cubicle in a building with no windows! It makes
mowing lawns sound like a good career move...

Anyway, spending a year or two as a CFI seems like the common thing
most folks do in order to build time. From poking around in the
newsgroups, it seems as though if a new CFI were pulling in around
$20k for full-time instructing, he would be considered a rich man! I
could have survived on $20k about 5 years ago, but with a wife and a
baby on the way, that's just not going to cut it.

If I could build up enough hours to get hired on somewhere making
$25k-$30k, that wouldn't be as unrealistic financially, and I could
pad it a bit with some contract work here-and-there.

So rather than chuck my current job right away, I figured I'd do a
little comparison and see how realistic I was being. How many hours
could I build up per year (and how much that would cost) if I stayed
at my current job and flew on the weekends versus how many hours I
would get (and how much money I would lose) if I instructed full-time.

So, all of that to tell you the origin of what I am asking:
Generally, how many hours can a full-time CFI expect to fly in a year?

"\"T\" Tung" wrote in message . ..
If you were a few years younger, you might have considered the
military. However, maximum age for USAF pilot training is 30 years
old at time of entry, and the application process would take about a
year, and they don't give out waivers for cases like yours.

That's also assuming you have a 4-year degree (officers need college
degrees). In fact, to fly for most majors, having a degree is a major
factor (not part of minimum quals, but highly desirable--as in 95% of
new hires at the majors have college degrees),

"T" Tung
USAF, UAL, Boeing


Funny you mention that, "T". I did try the Air Force... been trying
for the past 4 years in fact. Good scores, work experience, strong
letters, passed FC1 - just never got selected.

My IFR instructor, about a year younger than me, with similar scores,
got picked up in 2002 and is now training in T-38's, but he was one of
the lucky ones.

The number of guys they're picking up these days is pathetic. Last
year's selection average was roughly 15-20% (averaging probably 100
applicants per board) every six weeks. But this fiscal year, they've
cut back to I believe only 2 or 3 Rated boards per year.

Moral of the story - if you want a shot at a pilot position in the Air
Force, go to the Academy or ROTC. OTS gets the leftovers, and these
days, there isn't much left to go around...

Another option which I'm not sure you may have been aware of is to
apply directly to the AF Reserve or Air Guard. It is more competitive
in some ways, but sometimes even thatcan be deceiving. In my Reserve
unit (flying KC-135s), we don't really get that many applicants, and
the selection rate is therefore a bit higher...(maybe 30%).
The age limit is still the same though.

"T" Tung

"\"T\" Tung" wrote in message . ..
Another option which I'm not sure you may have been aware of is to
apply directly to the AF Reserve or Air Guard. It is more competitive
in some ways, but sometimes even thatcan be deceiving. In my Reserve
unit (flying KC-135s), we don't really get that many applicants, and
the selection rate is therefore a bit higher...(maybe 30%).
The age limit is still the same though.

"T" Tung

I briefly checked into the Guard, but since they are usually
recruiting for a UPT slot as far as 2-3 years in the future, usually
they won't take anyone past 27-28 years old. And even then,
preference is usually given to folks already members of the unit.

As CFIs we tend to fall into one of three categories.

1) FBO CFIs. You will probably easily fly 40 hours a week and make
about $12 and hour.
2) Solo CFI. You will probably make around $40-$50/hr and fly about 10
hours a week.
3) Super CFI. Once you've been a CFI for 30 years or so can usually
get the $40-$50 hr and still work 40 hours a week.



(Peter Gibbons) wrote in message . com...
Background: I'm currently 30 years old with my IFR and about 190 hrs
TT. Currently working as a systems administrator/programmer, but
weighing my options are if I were to try to make a career out of
aviation. Yeah - crazy, right? Try sitting in front of a monitor for
8 hours a day in a cubicle in a building with no windows! It makes
mowing lawns sound like a good career move...

Anyway, spending a year or two as a CFI seems like the common thing
most folks do in order to build time. From poking around in the
newsgroups, it seems as though if a new CFI were pulling in around
$20k for full-time instructing, he would be considered a rich man! I
could have survived on $20k about 5 years ago, but with a wife and a
baby on the way, that's just not going to cut it.

If I could build up enough hours to get hired on somewhere making
$25k-$30k, that wouldn't be as unrealistic financially, and I could
pad it a bit with some contract work here-and-there.

So rather than chuck my current job right away, I figured I'd do a
little comparison and see how realistic I was being. How many hours
could I build up per year (and how much that would cost) if I stayed
at my current job and flew on the weekends versus how many hours I
would get (and how much money I would lose) if I instructed full-time.

So, all of that to tell you the origin of what I am asking:
Generally, how many hours can a full-time CFI expect to fly in a year?

On 2004-01-14 07:50:57 -0800, (Robert M. Gary) said:

As CFIs we tend to fall into one of three categories.

1) FBO CFIs. You will probably easily fly 40 hours a week and make
about $12 and hour.

Where are you finding CFIs who can actually FLY 40 hours a week? Even the
most popular CFIs I worked with, who had been around for several years,
kept their schedules full, and rated $5 an hour more than the rest of us,
weren't flying more than 60 hours a month.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

(Robert M. Gary) wrote
As CFIs we tend to fall into one of three categories.

1) FBO CFIs. You will probably easily fly 40 hours a week and make
about $12 and hour.

I know of no CFI who flies 40 hours a week. Do you realize that this
would be 2000+ hours a year? With the 8 hour daily limitation, it's
difficult even on a good week.

I once knew a guy who flew almost 1200 hours one year. He NEVER took
a day off. He was there every day, and flew as much as he could. He
was also burned out and hated what he was doing. On top of that, 98+%
of those hours were in light singles, and past about 1000 hours, light
single right seat time doesn't really impress the people doing the
hiring.

2) Solo CFI. You will probably make around $40-$50/hr and fly about 10
hours a week.

I don't know where you are, but nobody around here (Houston) charges
rates like that. $30/hr is much closer to the norm.

As for flying 10 hours a week, I did that one year. Didn't really
care for it. That was the year I flew over 300 hours, and I will
probably never do it again. Instead of being fun, it started being a
chore, almost like work, and if I'm going to work, well, I make a lot
more at my day job.

Also, a solo CFI needs either his own plane to rent out or business
from owners. This guy has less than 200 hours. No owner I ever met
wants to fly with a low time CFI building hours.

3) Super CFI. Once you've been a CFI for 30 years or so can usually
get the $40-$50 hr and still work 40 hours a week.

See above about 40 hours a week.

Michael

My goodness -- forty hours a week? Even with ground school, etc., a CFI is
not going to give forty hours/week instruction under any circumstances.

You would have to be at the office 24/7 to get anywhere near that amount of
time.

Personally, I find the amount I instruct to be just about right. Enough to
keep me busy, but plenty of time to devote to business and other activities.
Instruction is only a retirement job for me, after all.

When I learned, our instructors did about 100 hours a month.

It was 7 days a week, 8am to sunset Monday to Saturday, late
start at 10am on Sunday. Usually flying with 2 students, 2 lessons
each a day, 1.5-3 hours each depending on whether it was exercises
or cross-country...though it wouldn't turn out to be 4x3, more like
4x1.5, or 3x1.5 and 1x3 or something like that. Days off weren't
a problem usually if an instructor wanted it at any time as long as
his students were ok with it.

Ground school was whenever they had some free time, between
lessons or evenings, though there wasn't much ground school, mostly
just explaining and debriefing lessons. Other stuff was self-taught
mostly (read the books, watch some videos).

Paul

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
My goodness -- forty hours a week? Even with ground school, etc., a CFI is
not going to give forty hours/week instruction under any circumstances.

You would have to be at the office 24/7 to get anywhere near that amount
of
time.

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote
As CFIs we tend to fall into one of three categories.

1) FBO CFIs. You will probably easily fly 40 hours a week and make
about $12 and hour.

I know of no CFI who flies 40 hours a week. Do you realize that this
would be 2000+ hours a year? With the 8 hour daily limitation, it's
difficult even on a good week.

Your right. I should have said "bills around 40 hours a week". We have
a couple serious flight schools in the area and they do keep their
CFIs busy. Of course about 10 hours a week of that is ground so
your're flying closer to 30 hours. Most of the CFIs work 6 day weeks
too and unusual hours. The downside is that the FBO takes most of the
money.


I once knew a guy who flew almost 1200 hours one year. He NEVER took
a day off. He was there every day, and flew as much as he could. He
was also burned out and hated what he was doing. On top of that, 98+%
of those hours were in light singles, and past about 1000 hours, light
single right seat time doesn't really impress the people doing the
hiring.

I know a guy who has a total of 35,000 hours. Most all of it is
CFI'ing in singles.

2) Solo CFI. You will probably make around $40-$50/hr and fly about 10
hours a week.
Also, a solo CFI needs either his own plane to rent out or business
from owners. This guy has less than 200 hours. No owner I ever met
wants to fly with a low time CFI building hours.

I am a solo CFI. I'm on the books with 3 FBOs. When I have my own
students I pick which ever FBOs works best. Since I find the students
myself, I don't have to give any of my fee to the FBOs. BTW: The first
student I ever had after getting my CFI was a private applicant in her
own plane. If you have the right personality, word gets around that
you are enjoyable and easy going in the cockpit.


3) Super CFI. Once you've been a CFI for 30 years or so can usually
get the $40-$50 hr and still work 40 hours a week.

See above about 40 hours a week.

I know of 3 CFIs off the top of my head and would be working 60 hours
a week if they weren't turning down students. All have well over
10,000 hours of instruction given though. One raised his rates as high
as the airplanes and he was still turning down pilots. There are
people out there with money and will only deal with the best.