Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Harry:

If that is your attitude, maybe YOU need to adjust YOUR attitude!

snip

BTW, your reference to "spoiling a formation landing" shows you know
nothing about formation flying. They came overhead in the break and, as
such, would have been landing individually, with one rolling out as the
next touched down.

Orval,

Your concern is sincerely appreciated but please don't worry, my attitude is
fine. I followed the recommended pattern entry at a busy uncontrolled
field. I do think, however, your undies may be a little tight.

Regarding my misnomer of "formation landing", you're absolutely correct and
I apologize. Having now had the privilege to fly (unintentionally) with
these fine airmen, slotted in the Number 3 position (original Number 3
became Number 4, or possibly we became Numbers 3a and 3b), we landed in
sequence to the adoration of cheering crowds, or maybe it was only a guy
walking his dog who didn't even notice the little airplanes land...

Regards,
Harry

In article ,
"Harry Shin" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Harry:

If that is your attitude, maybe YOU need to adjust YOUR attitude!

snip

BTW, your reference to "spoiling a formation landing" shows you know
nothing about formation flying. They came overhead in the break and, as
such, would have been landing individually, with one rolling out as the
next touched down.

Orval,

Your concern is sincerely appreciated but please don't worry, my attitude is
fine. I followed the recommended pattern entry at a busy uncontrolled
field. I do think, however, your undies may be a little tight.

Regarding my misnomer of "formation landing", you're absolutely correct and
I apologize. Having now had the privilege to fly (unintentionally) with
these fine airmen, slotted in the Number 3 position (original Number 3
became Number 4, or possibly we became Numbers 3a and 3b), we landed in
sequence to the adoration of cheering crowds, or maybe it was only a guy
walking his dog who didn't even notice the little airplanes land...

Regards,
Harry



Harry:

It appears that your real complaint is that the three were flying
formation and did an overhead approach -- both of which, if properly
done, are safe, legal and efficient. In my original post, I conceded
that it appears that the flight leader screwed up in breaking ahead of
you. What else do you want?

Are you jealous that others have practiced and enjoy flying formation?
Is it "airplane envy"? Your second paragraph indicates an attitude
problem.

"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...
|
| So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
| "approved"?

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like. AIM
recommends entering on the downwind at a 45 degree entry. Traffic on
instrument approaches tend to enter the pattern using either a straight-in
approach or a circling approach. Straight-in approaches are very common for
VFR traffic as well. Either the 45 degree entry or the straight-in gives you
plenty of opportunity to see and be seen.

Entering the pattern by descending into the downwind makes it difficult for
high wing aircraft to see you. If you are a low-wing aircraft, you also have
trouble seeing all the traffic in the pattern. If there were an accident you
would have to explain to the FAA, the families of the people you killed, and
probably some attorneys and a court room why you did not use the recommended
pattern entry. Even if there isn't an accident you risk incurring the wrath
of local pilots who might have had to take evasive action.

Uncontrolled airports tend to be squirrel nests anyway. Nothing you can do
about it except keep a sharp eye out (and maybe arrange a little blanket
party for the most serious offenders). :-)

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of turns.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news |
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
| ...
|
| You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.
|
|
| Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of turns.

True, but compliance and enforcement vary considerably from place to place.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

True, but compliance and enforcement vary considerably from place to
place.


In other words, you're free to violate any regulation that's not enforced.

In other words, you're free to violate any regulation that's not enforced.

And then you explain that it's "pilot's discretion"

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of turns.

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)

--
Mike

Mike O'Malley wrote:


Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)



Am I misreading something, or do the Canadians frown on the "45 to
downwind" approach at uncontrolled airports, (unless traffic advisory is
available)???

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/an...new197.htm#MF2

quote:
Basically, when airport and traffic advisory information is not
available, regardless of whether MF procedures are in effect or not,
aircraft should not join 45% to the downwind leg, straight-in to the
base or final leg of the circuit. The correct entry procedure to be
used, therefore, depends on whether airport and traffic advisory is
available or not."

Mike O'Malley wrote:

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory).

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."