Frustrated Student Pilot About to Quit

/On 21 Jan 2004 18:10:16 -0800, (Litwin)
wrote:

Giving up on something you truly believe in, or really want to do
is NEVER an option. You make the *other* guy give up..... grins
Sorta like the saying that goes the object of war is not to give your
life for your country, but to make the other guy give his life for
his. You're paying the bills for flight training, you get to call
the shots (within reason).

I empathize with your plight (you appear to have run into a
bad-apple), but at the same time, I'll say that I typically try to
avoid letting others dictate the success or failure of that which I
desire to do and/or achieve. There is always more than one way to
skin a cat. Be creative and adaptive. Doing so will improve the
likelyhood of achieving your goal(s).

If you truly desire to become a certificated pilot, you will do so
no matter what obstacles are put in your path (including driving
65 miles).

Anyway, it would appear your options a

1. Give up on getting your private pilot certificate (not an option
in my book).

2. "Suck it up" and put up with this particular CFI's tardy
habits for the next 20 or so hours of flight instruction until
you get that which you seek (the Pvt. cert.)

3. Fire the old Buick up and drive 65 miles to gain that which
you seek!

As a parting thought, it's been awhile since I've quoted him, but
perhaps it's time to drag it out again. Consider the following
words of wisdom from Johann Wofgang Von Goeth (this has
come true in spades for me with my endeavors in life):

"Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back,
always ineffectiveness, concerning all acts of initiative (and
creation). There is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills
countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely
commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur
to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream
of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favour all manner
of unforseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no
man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or
dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
Begin it now"

Bela P. Havasreti

I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...
1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent.

As you've already figured out, this is just plain unacceptable. Even 10 or
20 minutes late, if on a regular basis, would not be reasonable. But being
hours late is downright absurd.

He is the only CFI at this airport.

Which airport? As others have pointed out, it would be *highly* unusual for
it to be the case that this is the only CFI there, and certainly for him to
be the only one within a reasonable distance. Where are you exactly, that
this lone CFI has the corner on the market?

[...] Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

I suppose "not rare" is a fair statement. I wouldn't go so far as to say
"common". There are a large number of CFIs who act professionally,
including being on time.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

Yup, GA is distressed. But still, most operations have airplanes that work
reliably. The company you're talking about doesn't sound typical to me.
Keeping an airport clear of snow is harder, and that might be an issue where
you are. You'll need to find a different airport if that's truly a
continual problem.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I can't speak for the weather in your area. I live in the Seattle area,
rumored to be equally rainy and unflyable during the winter, but it turns
out that many more days even during the winter are flyable than one might
imagine. Keep in mind that, especially during the early parts of training,
a good instructor will want to make sure lessons happen in reasonably good
weather. That doesn't mean you'll always be similarly restricted. It just
means that, for now, you need good enough weather than you can focus on the
fundamental tasks at hand, rather than worrying about the weather.

Later in your training, the poorer weather will provide some good experience
that will keep you in good stead in your future as a pilot.

[...] The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

Sorry, your subject line implied that you hadn't quit yet. But now that I
reach the end of your post, it appears you have already quit.

Many people across the country, and indeed around the world, have learned to
fly under conditions at least as bad as what you're dealing with. You DO
need a new CFI, one who will treat you with more respect, and you DO need to
find a place to rent airplanes that keeps them better maintained. But
otherwise, there's no reason you can't complete your training, not if you
really want to.

Pete

Your situation sounds very frustrating, but rather than give it up I
would wait until the summer when the weather improves, and take that
time to do your own home study ground school and try to find an
independant CFI who will travel to you. In the meantime you will
probably meet some more pilots who can recommend a CFI to you.
Another piece I advice I'd like to offer is to not get too hung up on
how many hours it takes to solo, or how many hours to get your ticket.
The 40 hour benchmark to get your license is an old and outdated one.
It was devised at a time when airplanes were less complex and there
was less airspace to deal with. Some people can do it in 40 or 50,
others can take hundreds, it's all up to where you feel comfortable
with your knowledge and abilities. I didn't solo until about 40 hours,
the airplane I trained in was fully IFR certified complete with a GPS,
all of which I wanted a thorough grasp on if I was going to navigate
around the complex airspace where I live. I fly out of Van Nuys in S.
California and it is the busiest GA airport in America, 1570
operations per day. It is surrounded by every type airspace around and
there is a TON of traffic. So I soloed when I was comfortable that I
could get up and back without busting some type of airspace or bashing
into a 747 on approach to LAX.
Getting your ticket is a very rewarding achievement, so try not to
give up just yet.




(Litwin) wrote in message . com...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

If you really want to fly, you ought to think long & hard about
relocating.

As a half-way measure, you might look into a week-long program. I live
in a harsh climate, and I've twice gone off in March to learn
something new. I did five days at Chandler AZ doing stall and
aerobatic training, and last year I spent three days at Andover NJ
doing a bush-flying course. These were wonderful experiences. If you
had five days in a congenial climate doing a lesson in the morning and
another in the afternoon, and al the cable TV you could eat (I don't
have cable at home, so I binge when I'm on the road) you would know by
the end whether you really wanted to fly.

And you almost certainly would have soloed. That's worth a lot!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

The question is, 'How important is flying to you?' Only you can answer
that. I once had a job that I didn't really like at first. I finally
had to make a choice to either quit grumbling and do it, or quit.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



(Litwin) wrote in message . com...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing. However, I have reached the point
that I am about to give it up, and not because, I cannot fly the
pattern, do landings, steep turns, etc., or even costs or medical.
This is why:

1. I have a competent, patient, and otherwise very good CFI. However,
he can never be on time, and as a busy professional, and despite many
discussions, I cannot live with this. Not 10 or 20 min late, but 1 to
2 hours late, and frequent. He is the only CFI at this airport.
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road. Besides, untimely and tardy CFIs are a
common disease in GA so I hear.

2. GA seems economically distressed. The aviation company that
employs him has junk equipment, 2 days in a row now two different
planes would not start. And never mind the lack of money to plow snow
or remove compacted ice on the runway. I just don't want to spend my
money in what looks to me to be a distressed industry that may not
even have a bottom line in some sectors.

3. Living in the Great Lakes area, just how practical is all of this,
with 5 to 6 months of crappy weather being typical. It is perpetual
IFR, lots of icing, and when the plane will start, crosswind 2x or
more the POH limitations, and headwinds that leave driving a car
faster. Even scheduling 2 to 3 times a week, maybe only 50% of my
lessons could go forward, and even those sometimes were marginal
conditions. I am disappointed that this is not more practical.

I learned many things, made better progress than I had envisioned, and
really enjoyed the few timely, good days that were available, and
really enjoyed the reading and learning. I had wanted to get my
private pilot certif. For business and pleasure purposes. The best of
luck to those of you who have better circumstances, I am really sorry
to have to give it up.

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote in message
...

Giving up on something you truly believe in, or really want to do
is NEVER an option.

Sure it is, unless your goals are not very ambitious or interesting. If
they are, you will want to do much more than is physically possible in a
finite lifetime, and will often need to abandon some things you really want
in order to pursue other things you really want.

If you truly desire to become a certificated pilot, you will do so
no matter what obstacles are put in your path (including driving
65 miles).

I think you're confusing true desire with infinite desire. It would be
foolish to cling to something you truly desire if the obstacles cost much
more than your goal is worth. Sometimes it makes sense to persevere through
adversity; sometimes it doesn't. We need to make intelligent tradeoffs.

--Gary

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...
Unfortunately, the next closest airport with flight instruction is 65
miles from here, so my choices are non-existent, unless I want to
spend many hours on the road.

Can you find an instructor at the other airport who will fly to your local
airport for your lessons? It would add to the cost of your training, but it
would be an alternative to the long commute.

--Gary

Are you quitting or venting?

If you are quitting, what is the point of your post? taaaa taaa, don't let
the door knob, etc...

If you are venting, and/or looking for advice, you certainly got a boat load
of it...

If you want a discussion of alternatives, buzz me off the group...


denny

"Litwin" wrote in message
om...
I am a student pilot with 18 hours of flight time, and have been told
that I am very close to soloing.

Finding another CFI isn't terribly difficult. As with other things, you
just have to know where to look.
The FAA online database is one. Another would be to call or email the
FSDO for your are and ask them to send you a list.
A third source is the National Association of Flight Instructors. Go to
the EAA website and find the link to NAFI.
Once you obtain some names, you can GOOGLE (or ANYWHO) for telephone
numbers.
Call them directly and explain your situation. Ask if they would be
willing to take you on. Some will probably have their own aircraft that
they would prefer to use.
Be creative and stick with it. You will not regret it.

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I did check as to freelance CFIs in
this region, one is in Florida 8 months out of the year (gee I wonder
why) and not highly recommended, the other had his med certificate
pulled, and the other is well, on good information, a drunk so to
speak, and wouldnt have access to a plane. I also checked the other
airport 65 miles from here, a few I talked to were disappointed with
their flight instruction there. The next closest ga instruction is 90
miles. College and post grad were closer, and yes I want to fly, but
what preposterous conditions, its just not a reasonable sacrafice for
me. I guess it is different in the big city.

I drove to the airport this am to submit my "resignation" and I did
give the reasons, while looking at them trying to handprop one of the
training planes. I was such an excellent student, what a
disappointing surprise blah blah blah, they dont get it and never
will. And if I were to get my PP certif., I would be likely flying
out of that place anyway.

I am giving my flight bag with the books, videos, kneeboard and
headset to my nephew down south, if he wants them, perhaps he will
have more enjoyable circumstances than i encountered when he is old
enough to fly.

I learned a lot and progressed better than I imagined, and enjoyed the
very few good days. I never thought I could learn to control and land
an airplane unassisted, but I did. The fact that i could at least do
that is pretty cool.

I drove out after my "resignation" in a developing whiteout, knowing
that the coming 3 or 4 days of low IFR left me confident that learning
to fly is not practical in these parts, as the headlights of my former
CFI were turning into the airport, 45 minutes late.

The best of luck to the rest of you who have better circumstances and
the opportunity to find it rewarding.