Drunk pilot loses certificate

"Big John" wrote in message
...

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?


Presumably because he was repeatedly busting class B and
causing other traffic to divert.

Big John wrote:

I've see a number of individuals who drank from wake up to the time
their eyes closed for sleep at night.

They were able to pass any and all tests of ANY kind (memory, verbal,
body activity, etc) given to them other than a breathalizer (sp) which
only measures a approximation of alcohol in the body, not any
impairment. The powers that be, assume impairment with an arbitrary
level measured.

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

The tolerance of long-term users of alcohol is somewhat of a myth.
Alcoholics certainly are able to appear to "hold" their liquor by not
having the same loss of motor skills and reaction times as casual users,
but those measures are not the complete story. Alcohol affects many
things, such as depth perception, night vision, the ability to do
multitasking, judgment, concentration, and so on. Many of these more
complex, but less obvious abilities are affected by the same amount
whether or not the person has gained a tolerance for alcohol. There are
precisely the skills that are necessary for safe flight.

Long term alcohol use does create a tolerance, which manifests itself
mostly in the area of motor skills. It takes a higher blood alcohol
content for an alcoholic to reach the same level of "impairment' as a
casual drinker, as measured by motor skill and reaction time testing.
However, while motor skills might be less affected, most research
suggests that alcohol equally affects those with an alcohol tolerance
and those without. Judgment and the ability to do several things at the
same time are prominent on those lists.

Alcoholics are the most dangerous, since they think they are not
affected, and other people don't notice the effects as quickly. However,
they do have many of the same physical reactions to alcohol,
particularly those which are critical to safety. These can include a
lowered ability to judge distances, to track other objects and determine
points of path intersection, some loss of night vision, and reduced
ability to absorb external information.

In particular, testing has been performed on simulators, and it has been
found that while a pilot with a tolerance for alcohol might be able to
fly a routine flight with an elevated blood alcohol level with no
noticeable problems, things change when his workload increases. The
alcoholic pilot tends to concentrate on the mechanics of flying to the
exclusion of all else, just as much as a casual drinker. This results
in a tendency to overcontrol, lapses in judgment, and a tendency to
block out more and more external information, such as inputs from
peripheral vision, radio communications, non-essential gauges, and so
on. In short, they focus, and lose the ability to absorb and evaluate
information. Imagine what happens in IMC with a partial panel failure,
or a fuel problem while trying to stabilize for landing.

Because alcohol has similar effects on all people for the more complex
tasks, the impairment levels are not arbitrary, and long term alcohol
use does not give people immunity from its effects.

James

I was/am familiar with what you say and have two comments.

1. There are always exceptions to the rules. One of my points was that
no effort was made to see if the pilot was an exception.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to. During my
tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at night and in
bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results showed that an
ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and adaption) and reduce
accidents.

Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

So safety be damned.

Big John.



On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:42:17 GMT, James Robinson
wrote:

Big John wrote:

I've see a number of individuals who drank from wake up to the time
their eyes closed for sleep at night.

They were able to pass any and all tests of ANY kind (memory, verbal,
body activity, etc) given to them other than a breathalizer (sp) which
only measures a approximation of alcohol in the body, not any
impairment. The powers that be, assume impairment with an arbitrary
level measured.

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

The tolerance of long-term users of alcohol is somewhat of a myth.
Alcoholics certainly are able to appear to "hold" their liquor by not
having the same loss of motor skills and reaction times as casual users,
but those measures are not the complete story. Alcohol affects many
things, such as depth perception, night vision, the ability to do
multitasking, judgment, concentration, and so on. Many of these more
complex, but less obvious abilities are affected by the same amount
whether or not the person has gained a tolerance for alcohol. There are
precisely the skills that are necessary for safe flight.

Long term alcohol use does create a tolerance, which manifests itself
mostly in the area of motor skills. It takes a higher blood alcohol
content for an alcoholic to reach the same level of "impairment' as a
casual drinker, as measured by motor skill and reaction time testing.
However, while motor skills might be less affected, most research
suggests that alcohol equally affects those with an alcohol tolerance
and those without. Judgment and the ability to do several things at the
same time are prominent on those lists.

Alcoholics are the most dangerous, since they think they are not
affected, and other people don't notice the effects as quickly. However,
they do have many of the same physical reactions to alcohol,
particularly those which are critical to safety. These can include a
lowered ability to judge distances, to track other objects and determine
points of path intersection, some loss of night vision, and reduced
ability to absorb external information.

In particular, testing has been performed on simulators, and it has been
found that while a pilot with a tolerance for alcohol might be able to
fly a routine flight with an elevated blood alcohol level with no
noticeable problems, things change when his workload increases. The
alcoholic pilot tends to concentrate on the mechanics of flying to the
exclusion of all else, just as much as a casual drinker. This results
in a tendency to overcontrol, lapses in judgment, and a tendency to
block out more and more external information, such as inputs from
peripheral vision, radio communications, non-essential gauges, and so
on. In short, they focus, and lose the ability to absorb and evaluate
information. Imagine what happens in IMC with a partial panel failure,
or a fuel problem while trying to stabilize for landing.

Because alcohol has similar effects on all people for the more complex
tasks, the impairment levels are not arbitrary, and long term alcohol
use does not give people immunity from its effects.

In article ,
(Jeb) wrote:

"Jules Beaudoin" wrote in message
...
If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.




What causes the most severe damage to the environment? Cutting down millions
of trees or planting one Bush?


Environmentalists cause the most damage.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
C J Campbell ) wrote:

snip
Apparently this guy was a solid citizen who had never done anything like
this before. Makes you wonder what happened to him.

I believe you meant to type that he was a citizen who never got *caught*
before. Who here can say whether this individual has ever flown under
the
influence prior to this incident?

IMO, I hope he never gets his certificate back.


Hard to say without knowing more. It might be fair then to permanently
revoke driver's licenses for the same offense. Unless, of course, you are
suggesting that pilots get even more regulations without any added
benefits...

"Big John"
How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

One last shot over the bow. How many stone cold sober individuals have
flown through controlled airspace (the alleged activity)? Were their
ticket revoked?

There is a tendency irrationally condemn intoxicated people. But in this
case, the pilot was objectively intoxicated and he clearly acted in a
reckless and careless manner. Whether he was sober or drunk while doing
what he did, it would seem to justify pulling the ticket. The alcohol is a
reasonable explanation for the bizarre behaviour. Without the alcohol, the
guy needs medical help,

Big John wrote:

James

I was/am familiar with what you say and have two comments.

1. There are always exceptions to the rules. One of my points was that
no effort was made to see if the pilot was an exception.

He blew a 0.13 on a breathalyzer when he landed. There is no reason to
look for an exception, he was way over the limit.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to.

It has been well documented over the years. If the pilot had taken any
tranquilizers along with the alcohol, the deleterious effect on night
vision is amplified. Here are a couple of web pages with further
discussion:

http://www.cs.wright.edu/bie/rehaben...ionalcohol.htm
http://www.dol.gov/asp/programs/drug...ss/affects.asp

During my tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at
night and in bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results
showed that an ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and
adaption) and reduce accidents.

The pilot had something like 7 ounces in his system, assuming typical
weight. That reverses the effect.


Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

Drinking has too many ill effects to even consider using it before
flying. Even if it might help in some way, it hurts in too many others.
For a start, it is a depressant and would make people drowsy. Not
something you want on a long combat mission. Even 0.02% has shown a
negative effect on reaction, judgment, and alertness. Anyone who thinks
it is useful is mistaken.

People who think they have a tolerance for it, and can therefore operate
any type of equipment with higher than normal allowances are deluding
themselves.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to. During my
tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at night and in
bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results showed that an
ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and adaption) and reduce
accidents.

So if a shot is good, a fifth should give you X-Ray vision. Somehow I
doubt that the pilot in question had a blood alcohol of 0.15 from 1
shot, or that his vision was better with that much alcohol in his
system. Yes, a small amount of alcohol can be beneficial, but give me
a break!

I for one am glad that he lost his license. He doesn't deserve to
have it after showing such poor judgement. Pilots can and should be
held to a higher standard than drivers in this regard. For that
matter, drunk drivers often get away with DUI after DUI until they
finally kill someone.

Dean

"Big John" wrote in message
...

Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

One ounce of alcohol a day will make you live longer and signifigantly
reduces the probability of altzheimers at 70, but that does not mean a lot
of alcohol is a good thing.

Dean (and Dr James)

Your last in this part of the thread so will get the reply attached to
your post.

If you read close I said one Oz not a fifth. Guess you speed read and
jumped over that?

Also in the past few years the AMA has stated that red wine is good
for the heart (based on some studies of people in Italy). Recently
they have changed their recommendations to a couple of Oz's of alcohol
a day to get the benefits and reduce heart attacks.

So alcohol is not the evil portrayed in this thread. If does have some
socially redeeming values.

On the subject of reaction time and drinking. I have always been able
to catch eating utensils before they hit the floor if I knocked them
off the table. I am still able to do that even after my evening
libations and I use it as a measure of how much (if any) I have slowed
down with old age (somewhere over 80)

The statements that he put many people at risk I seriously doubt. This
group has had so many posts about how GA is taken to task for how
dangerous it is to everything and everyone. The media pains GA as the
worst thing that ever has happened to America and we see strong
opposition to their actions from all on the News Group. GA may kill
those in the aircraft but they just don't kill people on th ground. It
does happen, but is so rare to almost be a non event

Enough ranting. Need a night cap to calm down to get a good nights
sleep.

Big John


On 27 Jan 2004 20:48:09 -0800, (Dean
Wilkinson) wrote:

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to. During my
tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at night and in
bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results showed that an
ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and adaption) and reduce
accidents.

So if a shot is good, a fifth should give you X-Ray vision. Somehow I
doubt that the pilot in question had a blood alcohol of 0.15 from 1
shot, or that his vision was better with that much alcohol in his
system. Yes, a small amount of alcohol can be beneficial, but give me
a break!

I for one am glad that he lost his license. He doesn't deserve to
have it after showing such poor judgement. Pilots can and should be
held to a higher standard than drivers in this regard. For that
matter, drunk drivers often get away with DUI after DUI until they
finally kill someone.

Dean