ADS-B out with a non TSO'd 1201 GPS sensor?

On Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, wrote:
One of the approved units is the FreeFlight Systems 1201. It is posted here for less than $3000.00. However, it is only sold "installed" so additional expense.



http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/1201



Probably should run everything - -(what it's connected to, intended use,and installer)- - by your FAA FSDO before spending any $$$$.$$. Go back up and read Darrly Ramm's Nov.13 post which says "FAA has made it clear that FSDOs are forbidden from issuing any field/337 approvals for any ADS-B data-out installs".



Beats me.

OK this is actually more complex than I tried to put it earlier and things just changed recently and deserves a longer more careful reply. This is all pretty boring, remember the important technology related collision avoidance things today are really installing a PowerFLARM and/or a transponder. We are just starting to see the availability of suitable ADS-B data-out and GPS devices. There is no rush...

I had mentioned the need for a STC for an ADS-B data-out install since that has and effectively still currently controls what is installable. The prohibition on the use of field approvals/337 for ADS-B data-out installs was issued by a FAA Memorandum on August 30 2010 (http://www.aea.net/governmentaffairs...o%20102010.pdf)

Very recently this has been superseded by another Memorandum on November 5, 2012
(http://download.aopa.org/aircraft/121105faa-ads-b.pdf)

This is paired with FAA Advisory Circular AC 20-165A that provides guidance for the installation and approval of ADS-B data-out installs. See http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...%2020-165A.pdf

This new memorandum _does_ opens up field approval/337 based installs in some situations, but only when:

- The ADS-B data-out and GPS devices are TSO approved
- Where equivalent/similar installations that have previously been approved via STC (e.g. consisting of the same GPS, ADS-B data-out system and wiring etc.).
- Manufacturer installation instructions are followed etc.
- Relevant parts of AC 20-165 are followed.

If somebody really wants to do an install in a certified glider, I would suggest not starting an inquiry about that with a FSDO, I would start with manufacturer or third party STC owners, understand as much as you can from them, see if any existing STCs apply or gives field approval coverage under the current memo, and then take this to the FSDO. If there are no existing STC of the same equipment then the FSDO cannot help you at all with a field approval (with a certified aircraft).

Trig, or actually their partner Pereguine, (http://www.peregrine.aero) has an STC approval for the TT31 transponder with a FreeFlight 1201 WAAS/GPS See http://www.trig-avionics.com/press120404.html The STC is SR00744DE for a Mooney M20C (the AML lists only the M20C)

AFAIK this STC concerns only the Trig TT-31 transponder and so is not a basis under the FAA November 5, 2012 memo for a field approval/337 installation in a certified glider. I am not sure where things are with the TT22, I'll try to check. But once there is a STC that covers that and if anybody us willing to buy an expensive TSO'ed GPS they could try for a field approval install in a certified glider.

FreeFlight Systems also has a STC for their RANGR UAT data-out with the 1201 GPS/WAAS and that will lead to installs under the new field approval/337 process. But again that is a UAT device and because its UAT has lots of compatibility concerns for gliders with PowerFLARMs 1090ES data-in.

ADS-B data-out in non-certified gliders clearly does not work via STCs or field approval/337 there my assumption is as much as possible its good to you follow the applicable parts in CFR 14 91.227 and AC 20-165A as well as the manufactures instructions. There is still the intent of setting SIL=0 to flag the GPS source is not approved (the FAA specifically calls that out in AC 20-165), but here is a lot more to think about.

And there are so many different rules, buzzwords and specs etc. that fly around with ADS-B that I thought I'd just try to just list the main ones here and say what they are

The relevant ADS-B data-out FARs are

CFR 14 91.225. -- the basic requirements for carriage of ADS-B data-out by 2020 (gliders are exempt).
CFR 14 91.227 -- technical requirements that ADS-B data-out equipped aircraft must meet.

Especially read CFR 14 91.227 and AC 20-165A together.

The main TSO and their corresponding RTCA specs you are likely to see are -

TSO-C154c RTCA/DO-282B - UAT data-out (note the RTCA 'B' rev required for FAA ADS-B compliance)
TSO-C166b RTCA/DO-260B - 1090ES data-out (note the RTCA 'B' rev required for FAA ADS-B compliance)

TSO-C195a RTCA/DO-317A - ADS-B data-in (really affects IFR class traffic displays, not relevant to gliders)

TSO-C145a RTCA/DO-229C - GPS/WAAS required for "compliant" ADS-B data-out. e.g. a FreeFlight 1201
TSO-C146a RTCA/DO-229C - GPS/WAAS systems in integrated navigation products (e.g. Garmin glass panels, these can drive ADS-B data-out just like C145a systems can).

TSO-C112c RTCA/DO-181D - Mode S transponder, all practical 1090ES data-out devices will meet this spec.

---

As I think I mentioned before, Trig TT21/22 transponders were previously DO-260A complaint and in the recent firmware version 2.1 (or higher) have been updated to DO-260B compliance and Trig has been granted the corresponding TSO-C166b approval for these transponders. Older Trig transponders can be upgraded to DO-260B compliance by returning to Southeast Aerospace (SEA) for a free firmware update, you just pay shipping. Contact Laurie Burgess at SEA ) to arrange an RMA. I don't believe the is any reason to do this update unless you want to do ADS-B data-out.

Hope some of that helps.


Darryl

Darryl,

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write your last post - I found it extremely informative!

Out of curiosity I did a Google search for "DO-260A versus DO-260B" to see what was changed. I found something ( http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/WG3_Meetings/...es_1-09-09.doc ), but it was way to technical for me.

Is there anything in this DO-260A to B change that we glider pilots should understand, or is it mostly "inside baseball" stuff that's important (as you said) only if you implement ADS-B?

-John

On Monday, November 19, 2012 3:42:29 AM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
As I think I mentioned before, Trig TT21/22 transponders were previously DO-260A complaint and in the recent firmware version 2.1 (or higher) have been updated to DO-260B compliance and Trig has been granted the corresponding TSO-C166b approval for these transponders. Older Trig transponders can be upgraded to DO-260B compliance by returning to Southeast Aerospace (SEA) for a free firmware update, you just pay shipping. Contact Laurie Burgess at SEA ) to arrange an RMA. I don't believe the is any reason to do this update unless you want to do ADS-B data-out.

On Monday, November 19, 2012 10:05:31 AM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:
Darryl,



Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write your last post - I found it extremely informative!



Out of curiosity I did a Google search for "DO-260A versus DO-260B" to see what was changed. I found something ( http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/WG3_Meetings/...es_1-09-09.doc ), but it was way to technical for me.



Is there anything in this DO-260A to B change that we glider pilots should understand, or is it mostly "inside baseball" stuff that's important (as you said) only if you implement ADS-B?



-John

John

There are important changes. But the high order message is DO-260B is the 1090ES spec required by the FAA and its likely at some time that DO-260A transmitters just won't receive the full suite of ground services (ATC, TIS-B, ADS-R) and certainly won't meet FAA 2020 carriage mandate (that gliders are exempt from anyhow).

DO-260B technically is important for the USA rollout of ADS-B. For example it changed the interpretation of capability class bits, that tell the ground infrastructure if your aircraft has 1090ES data-in and/or UAT data-in capabilities and that is used by the ground infrastructure to work out what ADS-R and TIS-B data to broadcast for to your aircraft. There were also changes in the GPS sensor quality data parameters transmitted (the SIL, NIC, NACp and NACv parameters).

There are better docs discussing changes than the one you found, here is one example..,

http://www.bangkok.icao.int/cns/meet...21&doc_id=2159

Regards


Darryl

Darryl,

Many thanks for your easy to understand version of DO-260B. I get it...

I had seen the link you provided, but it wouldn't open. I persevered once I understood it was important, and was finally successful. You're right, it was a much better document - and almost understandable! grin

Best regards,
John

On Monday, November 19, 2012 3:34:10 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
John

There are important changes. But the high order message is DO-260B is the 1090ES spec required by the FAA and its likely at some time that DO-260A transmitters just won't receive the full suite of ground services (ATC, TIS-B, ADS-R) and certainly won't meet FAA 2020 carriage mandate (that gliders are exempt from anyhow).

DO-260B technically is important for the USA rollout of ADS-B. For example it changed the interpretation of capability class bits, that tell the ground infrastructure if your aircraft has 1090ES data-in and/or UAT data-in capabilities and that is used by the ground infrastructure to work out what ADS-R and TIS-B data to broadcast for to your aircraft. There were also changes in the GPS sensor quality data parameters transmitted (the SIL, NIC, NACp and NACv parameters).

There are better docs discussing changes than the one you found, here is one example..,

http://www.bangkok.icao.int/cns/meet...21&doc_id=2159

Regards

Darryl