Potential $300 increase in contest fees?

While I agree with Lane that such a rule would be too heavy handed an
approach, I can certainly understand its utility on a couple of broad
fronts:

1. I think that soaring contests are too often too insular. At too
many contests you see the same old faces and no new ones. Putting in
place measures that encourage pilots to bring crew would increase
exposure of the sport to new pilots and also to not-yet pilots.

2. I can certainly agree that contests with a high percentage of
crewless pilots can be a pain. Most such pilots do indeed take
reasonable precautions to ensure that their crewlessness does not
adversely affect other pilots or the contest as a whole. However, it
doesn't take much bad luck or bad weather for things to go to worms in
a hurry.

3. Despite protestations to the contrary, I persist in the conviction
that crewless pilots typically don't bring their full game to a
contest. The measure of conservativity required to compete on that
basis denies everybody the kind of contest experience they could be
getting. I've seen time and again how one hot competitor will inspire
everybody to bring it up a notch, and that is less likely to happen
where the majority are tiptoeing between aeroretrive opportunities.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:47:27 PM UTC-6, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
While I agree with Lane that such a rule would be too heavy handed an approach, I can certainly understand its utility on a couple of broad fronts: 1. I think that soaring contests are too often too insular. At too many contests you see the same old faces and no new ones. Putting in place measures that encourage pilots to bring crew would increase exposure of the sport to new pilots and also to not-yet pilots. 2. I can certainly agree that contests with a high percentage of crewless pilots can be a pain. Most such pilots do indeed take reasonable precautions to ensure that their crewlessness does not adversely affect other pilots or the contest as a whole. However, it doesn't take much bad luck or bad weather for things to go to worms in a hurry. 3. Despite protestations to the contrary, I persist in the conviction that crewless pilots typically don't bring their full game to a contest.. The measure of conservativity required to compete on that basis denies everybody the kind of contest experience they could be getting. I've seen time and again how one hot competitor will inspire everybody to bring it up a notch, and that is less likely to happen where the majority are tiptoeing between aeroretrive opportunities. Thanks, Bob K.

to the contrary, offering visiting pilots crew for a fixed cost per day may encourage new pilots to go to a contest.

Perhaps the better way to offer it would be something like "Crew is available for the low low price of $50 per day. A 50 point penalty per occurence will apply if you block the runway after landing."

btw i enjoyed reading through the RC Minutes and look forward to seeing the proposed rules when they are posted. Particular interested in the new rules allowing radio use at regionals. This will come in really handy at the regional i'm planning to organize this season, where I expect a 50%+ "newbie" rate.

Meanwhile the organizer is paying or trying to subsidize the ground crew that is helping YOU out, so YOU can have fun, and YOU can go flying. There is a higher percentage of effort on their part for the average crewless pilot.. While the pilot brought a crew or possibly paying (Ok im going to be sexist here) wife tax which could range between .5%-300% of your personal contest budget. Bringing a crew and putting them in a hotel plus food is going to run you a lot higher rate than what was recommended. Yes there are pilot pools for land-outs but sometimes that doesn't work out as well. I have in the past sent employees on retrieves, meanwhile I am paying them, and getting you out of a field.

BB has a point, there are people that would gladly pay $50/day or some amount to have a helping hand, like he described. I think that should be the condition, not just hey we are going to charge you guys more... But even $5/day to get a High School student out there pushing you off the runway because you cannot fly to Private Pilot Standards (Mikes recommendation of a spot landing fee on single runway airports), not to mention everything else, tow gear, wing-runner... Look at it as a pool to hire a few kids to be there for you.

Unfortunately not everyone wants to volunteer two weeks of their time to watch you fly...IF they did then wouldn't everyone have a crew with them?

I have been crewless, brought crew, and organizer...

In article ,
gliderstud wrote:

Meanwhile the organizer is paying or trying to subsidize the ground crew that
is helping YOU out, so YOU can have fun, and YOU can go flying. There is a
higher percentage of effort on their part for the average crewless pilot.
While the pilot brought a crew or possibly paying (Ok im going to be sexist
here) wife tax which could range between .5%-300% of your personal contest
budget. Bringing a crew and putting them in a hotel plus food is going to run
you a lot higher rate than what was recommended. Yes there are pilot pools
for land-outs but sometimes that doesn't work out as well. I have in the past
sent employees on retrieves, meanwhile I am paying them, and getting you out
of a field.

BB has a point, there are people that would gladly pay $50/day or some amount
to have a helping hand, like he described. I think that should be the
condition, not just hey we are going to charge you guys more... But even
$5/day to get a High School student out there pushing you off the runway
because you cannot fly to Private Pilot Standards (Mikes recommendation of a
spot landing fee on single runway airports), not to mention everything else,
tow gear, wing-runner... Look at it as a pool to hire a few kids to be there
for you.

Unfortunately not everyone wants to volunteer two weeks of their time to
watch you fly...IF they did then wouldn't everyone have a crew with them?

I have been crewless, brought crew, and organizer...

Did I miss the part about the $300 providing one with a dedicated crew
from the contest organizer?

I am not sure what "higher percentage of effort on their part" you are
referring to. When I go crewless, which is as seldom as possible, other
than asking a neighboring pilot to help me rig (which I certainly
reciprocate), I am pretty much self contained. I get my ship to the grid
on my own and I clear the runway expeditiously on my own. I admit that
the launch crew may have to help me attach my canopy.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Here's an idea, have the contest at an airport that doesn't require downwind landings to the last 1000' as the norm. I'm sure some agency would have a good time asking the pilot of a destroyed glider why they elected to land downwind to the last 1000' of runway. How's the saying go.......altitude above you and runway behind you?

On Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:39:08 PM UTC-8, LOV2AV8 wrote:
Here's an idea, have the contest at an airport that doesn't require downwind landings to the last 1000' as the norm. I'm sure some agency would have a good time asking the pilot of a destroyed glider why they elected to land downwind to the last 1000' of runway. How's the saying go.......altitude above you and runway behind you?

Finally someone stated one of the real problems with this particular location for a contest. It was not lack of crew. The additional issue at this site that was even more troubling was not using all the runway for takeoff to the south. Many gliders even the two seaters that opted to push back to the end of the grid for takeoff were 50' or less off the ground as they passed the departure end of the runway. If there was a problem shortly after takeoff the option was barb wire fence, freeway , wires, truck stop!!!!

Other than that it is a great place to fly.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com