Position and Hold at uncontrolled field

LOL...a couple of months ago nellis approach almost let me fly into a mountain
because some guy from utah here for xmas shopping, flying out, I was right behind
him, was doing that on the radio, ummm hhmmm mmmmummm and so on, I almost told him
to spit it out and shut up but he wouldnt stop talking!
finally as I am nearing the mountain getting ready to make the decision to deviate
from my course ATC had me on, he shut up and let me ask to make my turn.

I hate it when people just dont spit out what they have to say .

Bob Fry wrote:

And always like this:

"Uh, um, Podunk Traffic, aahhhh...Cessna...Cessna November One Two
Three Four Pa-pa uhhhh Victor aaahhh....turning...downwind....uuhhhh,
Podunk uhhh Airport. I mean Traffic."

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
LOL...a couple of months ago nellis approach almost let me fly into a
mountain
because some guy from utah here for xmas shopping, flying out, I was right
behind
him, was doing that on the radio, ummm hhmmm mmmmummm and so on, I almost
told him
to spit it out and shut up but he wouldnt stop talking!
finally as I am nearing the mountain getting ready to make the decision to
deviate
from my course ATC had me on, he shut up and let me ask to make my turn.

I hate it when people just dont spit out what they have to say .


Remember that there are a lot of student pilots and low time pilots who have
a hard time learning to use the radios. Not everybody can be as crisp and
laconic as a 10,000 hour airline captain. Jumping on some guy who is having
trouble anyway is not helpful and simply ties up the radios even more while
you all argue over it.

One of the hardest things I have to do as an instructor is not jump in and
'help' my student on the radios or make his radio calls for him.

Instead of criticizing how others use the radios, concentrate on improving
your own radio habits and decision making.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:15:48 -0800, C J Campbell wrote:



Remember that there are a lot of student pilots and low time pilots who have
a hard time learning to use the radios. Not everybody can be as crisp and
laconic as a 10,000 hour airline captain. Jumping on some guy who is having
trouble anyway is not helpful and simply ties up the radios even more while
you all argue over it.

One of the hardest things I have to do as an instructor is not jump in and
'help' my student on the radios or make his radio calls for him.

Instead of criticizing how others use the radios, concentrate on improving
your own radio habits and decision making.

How 'bout the FBO that insists on welcoming every new plane and arranging
cars, taxis, hotels, sightseeing tours, evening entertainment, restaurant
reservations, parking, catering, grocery shopping, outlet mall
suggestions ......while students and other planes are in the pattern,
instead of a quick message to switch over to the ARINC freq.

Sorry, just my local pet peeve.

--
Rick/JYO
PP-ASEL-IA
remove 'nospam' to reply

I'm not critizing anyone for poor radio technique. I got my private at
an uncontrolled strip, 9n1 and my IFR at PNE. I felt like a complete
idiot when I first started flying at PNE. I still make plenty of
mistakes. I'm not even concerned about radio use, just worried about
someone taking the active for no good reason. When your ready to go,
say your intentions, taxi out and go.

dave
68 7ECA




C J Campbell wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

LOL...a couple of months ago nellis approach almost let me fly into a

mountain

because some guy from utah here for xmas shopping, flying out, I was right

behind

him, was doing that on the radio, ummm hhmmm mmmmummm and so on, I almost

told him

to spit it out and shut up but he wouldnt stop talking!
finally as I am nearing the mountain getting ready to make the decision to

deviate

from my course ATC had me on, he shut up and let me ask to make my turn.

I hate it when people just dont spit out what they have to say .



Remember that there are a lot of student pilots and low time pilots who have
a hard time learning to use the radios. Not everybody can be as crisp and
laconic as a 10,000 hour airline captain. Jumping on some guy who is having
trouble anyway is not helpful and simply ties up the radios even more while
you all argue over it.

One of the hardest things I have to do as an instructor is not jump in and
'help' my student on the radios or make his radio calls for him.

Instead of criticizing how others use the radios, concentrate on improving
your own radio habits and decision making.

this guy was not a new pilot, he was flying a C-210 and he wasnt having trouble,
he was just "chatting" to Nellis approach, and really really dragging out each
word slowly.
As the person following him, in class B, I was not suppose to deviate from my
course or altitude - I tried slowing down a little to give me more time, but the
guy just kept talking.
I never said anything to him, As soon as I had the opportunity I fired off
"arrow 891 request turn on course"

the nellis AFB guys are kinda relaxed, I guess the speed of our planes put them
to sleep.



C J Campbell wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
LOL...a couple of months ago nellis approach almost let me fly into a
mountain
because some guy from utah here for xmas shopping, flying out, I was right
behind
him, was doing that on the radio, ummm hhmmm mmmmummm and so on, I almost
told him
to spit it out and shut up but he wouldnt stop talking!
finally as I am nearing the mountain getting ready to make the decision to
deviate
from my course ATC had me on, he shut up and let me ask to make my turn.

I hate it when people just dont spit out what they have to say .


Remember that there are a lot of student pilots and low time pilots who have
a hard time learning to use the radios. Not everybody can be as crisp and
laconic as a 10,000 hour airline captain. Jumping on some guy who is having
trouble anyway is not helpful and simply ties up the radios even more while
you all argue over it.

One of the hardest things I have to do as an instructor is not jump in and
'help' my student on the radios or make his radio calls for him.

Instead of criticizing how others use the radios, concentrate on improving
your own radio habits and decision making.

"C J Campbell" writes:

Remember that there are a lot of student pilots and low time pilots who have
a hard time learning to use the radios.

Fair enough. But I'm thinking of pilots who should be able to do
better, but who simply have never given a thought to how their radio
hogging is messing up others.

One of the hardest things I have to do as an instructor is not jump in and
'help' my student on the radios or make his radio calls for him.

Sure, students need to practice using the radio, but please take them
to a quiet field and frequency to do so. To let them flounder on the
air at a busy field is simply dangerous.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Pilots can holler all they want about that *$()% who just did something
they
didn't like, but that's too bad. Nine times out of ten you find that it is
the guy who thinks he was wronged that needs to apologize to somebody.

Great summary of this, and almost every other "traffic at uncontrolled
airports" thread.

Michael

Pilots can holler all they want about that *$()% who just did something
they
didn't like, but that's too bad. Nine times out of ten you find that it
is
the guy who thinks he was wronged that needs to apologize to somebody.

Great summary of this, and almost every other "traffic at uncontrolled
airports" thread.

Maybe, but...

In my experience, it takes a pretty major -- and obviously wrong -- faux pas
to **** off a pilot to the point where he is "hollering" at someone.
Usually everyone is in "live and let live" mode, and no one gets too ruffled
when someone flies a weird pattern. (For example.)

When I've seen a blow up happen -- and I've only seen it happen twice in ten
years -- the guy getting hollered at clearly deserved it.

Or did you mean "holler" figuratively, CJ?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I don't do P&H at uncontrolled fields for the simple reason I can't see what
is happening on final... I stay at the line (or where one should be) until
the runway is clear for departure, and then I simply power around the turn
and smoothly go full throttle without stopping... There is zero lost time
compared to being in position and blind to the rear...

denny

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It is not a new technique; people have been doing it for years. Most
instructors discourage it for the reasons you mention, but there is
nothing
illegal about it. There was an enormously long thread about it last year.
Maybe the guy normally flies out of a towered airport and just doesn't
know
any better.

Surprising things can happen even at towered airports. Uncontrolled fields
sometimes look like you are flying into a hive of bees. Aircraft flying
instrument approaches can come in from any direction and circle to land at
below pattern altitude. Helicopters may be flying in the opposite pattern.
Almost anybody can be using almost any pattern entry. Airplanes can be
using
opposite runways simultaneously. Ultralights fly their own pattern. And
radios -- hah! If the guy is making position calls at all (if he even
*has*
radios) he is likely as not broadcasting on the frequency of the airfield
he
departed from and annoying the heck out of the tower there. All of it is
legal, or just common human error, a lot of it is required, and just about
anything can happen.

Pilots can holler all they want about that *$()% who just did something
they
didn't like, but that's too bad. Nine times out of ten you find that it is
the guy who thinks he was wronged that needs to apologize to somebody.

Keep a sharp eye out and don't assume that everybody follows the same
rules
that you do.

"dave" wrote in message
...
I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.

Is this a new training technique to get students ready for controlled
fields? Most everybody has a radio at my home field but I fly into
fields where many pilots don't have or don't use their radio.

Dave
68 7ECA

I have never understood why some pilots use this technique to attempt
suicide. If they want to kill themselves why waste a perfectly good
airplane.