commercial privileges

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...
Why don't you call the local FSDO and ask them? There seems to be a lot
of
variation between them so you want to know what the one for your area
thinks.

That's a good idea. But I'd have to get a written opinion if I want to rely
on it. It's frustrating to have a system where each FSDO makes up its own
unpublished rules because the published ones don't make sense.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:_WQ_b.399631$na.765403@attbi_s04...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:yjK_b.113497$jk2.502928@attbi_s53...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay,
P
E
R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service
by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?


No, you're fine if you are just doing local sightseeing. AOPA is
working to ensure this doesn't change. Make sure your insurance is ok
for sightseeing and your class 2 medical is good to go. Its common for
flight schools to sell photography flights.

Sure, but flight schools are licensed operators; I'm not. So there
seems
to
be disagreement here as to whether a non-operator commercial pilot can
do
this. And the relevant FARs appear to be gibberish, so I'm still
uncertain
as to what the answer is in practice.

For instance, according to FAR 1.1, to be considered a "commercial
operator", you have to be engaged in "air commerce". But according to
1.1,
to be considered "air commerce", your activity has to be interstate,
international, on Federal airways, or involving mail delivery.
Otherwise,
no "air commerce", hence no "commercial operator". But part 119 only
applies to "commercial operators" as defined in 1.1. And parts 121 and
135
only apply to those to whom part 119 applies--except for local
sightseeing
flights, which part 135 addresses even when part 119 doesn't apply. So
as
long as you stay in one state, avoid Federal airways, don't deliver
mail,
and don't do local sightseeing flights (but long-range sightseeing is
ok!),
nothing in 119, 121, or 135 is applicable. That can't be what the FAA
meant, but it's what they've written.

--Gary

Have the journalist rent the aircraft and then pay you to fly it.

"Gordon Young" wrote in message
...
Have the journalist rent the aircraft and then pay you to fly it.

The FBO won't rent to a non-pilot.

Have the journalist rent the aircraft and then pay you to fly it.

The FBO won't rent to a non-pilot.


Have the FBO rent to a pilot who can act as stupidvisor, but not fly. Have the
journalist hire you to fly the plane. Then have the journalist write an
article about FARs.

Then leave the country for a while.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:_WQ_b.399631$na.765403@attbi_s04...

Sure, but flight schools are licensed operators; I'm not.

Not all flight schools are, either.

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

An air taxi service is specifically defined in part 135. Aerial photography
is not providing an air taxi service. Where are you getting this stuff,
anyway?

"Gordon Young" wrote in message
...
Have the journalist rent the aircraft and then pay you to fly it.

Totally unnecessary.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the
part
135 drug-testing rules?



OK. Part 119 prescribes who has to register as an air carrier, that is
someone who is doing air taxi or some similar service. It specifically does
not apply to certain operations:

Part 119.1 (b) (6):
(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted
with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more,
excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000
pounds or more, this part does not apply to—

(1) Student instruction;

(2) Nonstop sightseeing flights conducted with aircraft having a passenger
seat configuration of 30 or fewer, excluding each crewmember seat, and a
payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, that begin and end at the same
airport, and are conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of that airport;
however, for nonstop sightseeing flights for compensation or hire conducted
in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements
of SFAR 50–2 of this part or 14 CFR part 119, as applicable, apply;

(3) Ferry or training flights;

(4) Aerial work operations, including—

(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;

(ii) Banner towing;

(iii) Aerial photography or survey;

(and several other types of operations).

Part 135 specifically says it applies to sightseeing flights as follows:

§ 135.1 Applicability.
(a) This part prescribes rules governing—

(5) Nonstop sightseeing flights for compensation or hire that begin and end
at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of
that airport; however, except for operations subject to SFAR 50–2, these
operations, when conducted for compensation or hire, must comply only with
§§135.249, 135.251, 135.253, 135.255, and 135.353. (basically, drug testing
and alcohol abuse requirements).

Nowhere is there any regulation that says you have to conduct aerial
photography under part 135, do a drug test, or any other such thing. Anyone
who tells you otherwise had better be able to cite chapter and verse as to
why.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:yjK_b.113497$jk2.502928@attbi_s53...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E
R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?


No, you're fine if you are just doing local sightseeing.

Or aerial photography. Or fire fighting. Or agricultural work, etc.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:kfK_b.113484$jk2.502865@attbi_s53...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist
on
a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking
the
part
135 drug-testing rules?



Aerial photography is one of the specified exceptions to the charter
rules,
as is flight instruction and such agricultural work as fish spotting or
pipeline patrol where there might be a 'passenger' on board. In each
case
the 'passenger' is considered a required crew member.

I see that it's an exception to part 119 (as per FAR 119.1e4iii), but I
wasn't sure if it still comes under the scope of 135.1a5, which applies
even
when part 119 doesn't.

Part 135.1 says what part 135 applies to. Aerial photography is not listed
there. Neither are any of the other exceptions that are listed in part 119,
except for sightseeing flights, and part 135 says those have to comply with
the drug testing requirements.