Moving to CA

I still give PAO the thumbs up - I can grab a quick sandwich right there
next to the FBO. Now, granted, RHV has a nearby In 'n Out which gets

Yes, but the sandwich will cost you a million dollars at PAO!

But I have to drive there - it's too far to walk.

Woosy! grin


Actually I have wondered if the "Ilk" are why airplanes and CFIs cost
more there than at RHV...

Survey says............ "Yes"

But then again, there's San Carlos which has similiar HOBBS rates to PAO..
If I were to be serious for a moment, I guess that's what bugs me most about
some of the local flying clubs; ya pay the monthly dues AND enrollment fee
and you STILL pay higher HOBBS rates.

given day - to ME. Remember, I said in my post that it was MY OPINION
and MY EXPERIENCE. Clearly yours is different - no worries, but I feel
like I'm being attacked.

Yes,,, but your opinion is wrong and I felt it was my duty to point it
out... '-)

And there are TWO Starbucks in the shopping center across Capitol/Tully
from RHV. So there.

Yes, but they are generally not in plain view, so I don't find their
presence as 'obscene' as I normally would '-)

I don't like 30 year old airplanes with scratchy radios and "INOP"
placards plastered all over the place. I prefer to spend a little more $
and fly something nicer and newer. But really, my point was that PAO has
a lot more interesting planes, both in the air and on the ground, on any

But that simply isn't true,,, there are perfectly nice (AND new - especially
at Tradewinds) airplanes at RHV. Even the older trainers at Nice Air are in
respectable shape.

OK, OK. I flew out of RHV for my first four years; now I'm at PAO for
fixed wing stuff, so maybe I was just bored with RHV in general.

If you laid off the Starbucks caffeine,,, you'd 'come down' and then flying
would be exciting again, no matter where you flew ! ;-)

Criminy, don't get your panties all in a wad.

Hey!!! How did you know what I was wearing for underwear??? THAT'S what I
get for waking up at three in the morning and trying to dress in the
dark,,, knew something felt different....... :-/.

I'll close by mentioning one thing I forgot to mention about PAO - I'm
still not used to flying over water all the time in the pattern. With so
many airplanes typically in the air, it's difficult to fly a very tight,
"safe" pattern (in case of an engine failure or whatever), and that
water looks cold from 800'.

Flying over the water has never been one of my favorite things, either.
Don't know if you have your instrument rating yet, but assuming you
don't.... Just wait until you do an instrument approach into Monterey,
Norcal takes you WAAAAYYYY out over the ocean to start the
approach,,,,,,,,,,,,, YIKES!!!! Also the Watsonville instrument approaches
give me the willies too for a similar reason. For some weird reason, flying
the Bay Tour (with only Crissy Field as the only likely emergency landing
site,,, aside from a ditching in the bay) doesn't 'bug' me,,, go figure.....


--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:00:14 GMT, "Cecil Chapman"
wrote:


- two runways (3100-ish feet long)
- helicopter training is available
- no restaurant on-field

But the area is surrounded by any number of restaurants.



IMO RHV's management is missing a bet by not making it easier for a
restaurant to occupy the upper level of the gub'ment building there.

- airspace butts up against foothills to the east, and SJC to the
northwest. There are basically two fixed-wing corridors you can fly
into
it with - "Caleveras" and "UTC" - without talking to SJC.

Calaveras, UTC are just one of the few 'corridors' as you call them that
you
can fly without talking to NORCAL or SJC, if you look at a sectional
you'd
see there are quite a bit more.

Nonetheless the ones I mentioned are what probably 90% of the
inbound/outbound VFR traffic use. (BTW I *have* been known to look at a
sectional occasionally, but mostly they're great for wrapping aviation
presents. )

- IMO, a boring selection of airplanes to kick the tires on, other than
having about 400% more helicopters than PAO

For God's sake, man,,,, if you find the process of flying 'boring' maybe
you
are in the wrong sport?




??? I spend LOTS of this time at this field... If, as you say, RHV has
"400% more helicopters than PAO",,,, then PAO must have only ONE
helicopter,
because there really aren't that many helicopters on the field. Most of
the
activity and presence is fixed-wing from tail draggers to trainers, to
twins.

My math was a little buggered. To be clear: to my knowledge there are no
rental/training helicopters at PAO, while there are three at RHV.

Oh geez,,, have you ever SEEN RHV??? there are twins, taildraggers, new
Cessnas as well as older models the field, but yes, there are also older
(but well-maintained) planes there, also.

Yawn. The most interesting plane that was there for a long time, that
you could walk up to anyway, was an old Navion that hadn't flown in a
looooong time. Beat-to-pieces 182s and Archers are boooooooring. And not
a SINGLE New Technology airplane exists on the entire field that can be
rented. PAO has four that I can think of, and even SQL has two or three.

So, if you are the kind who can
only impress the ladies with that shiny new plane and not the glory of
flight (regardless of how one gets UP there),, maybe shiny, new planes
are
what YOU need,,, but they are certainly not a necessity for the original
poster who wants to learn how to fly and discover the magic of flight -
for
that you only need a decent well-maintained plane, determination and 'the
dream',,, that's it.....

Whatever. And, BTW wtf is this nonsense about impressing the ladies with
an airplane? I fly for the challenge, not to get laid. That's what my
giant pilot's watch is for!

Oops wait,,, I think I just figured you out....

Nnnnnk, but thanks for playing. You don't have me Figured Out.

Here's the REAL problem you
have with RHV - unlike PAO (where the rich folks play), there are no
BMW's,
Mercedes' and their ilk infecting the parking lots and GASP there are
NO
nearby espresso/latte' stands ,,,, and GASP AND HORRORS, the area that
surrounds RHV is ethnically diverse! ;0)




Here's what you'll find at RHV (though, of course there are always a few
exceptions); pilots driving well-worn, older model cars 'cause they are
saving their bucks for that plane they have in the hangar, or for their
flying lessons - because in the end, it isn't the fancy car, or the
flash,
or the praise/accolades they are looking for,,, they just LOVE to fly.
All
ya need for that is the determination and a mechanically-sound airplane,
doesn't have to be brand-new and flashy. Like that bumper sticker
says,,,,,, "Flight,,,, all the rest is just 'details'".

None of what I said
implies that I don't love to fly. I just love different aspects of it
than you do! Jeez!

---



dB.

writes:

IMO RHV's management is missing a bet by not making it easier for a
restaurant to occupy the upper level of the gub'ment building there.

The conspiracy mongers amongst us think it's by design, tied into
the ever present efforts to close RHV.

-jav

In article ,
Javier Henderson wrote:
writes:

IMO RHV's management is missing a bet by not making it easier for a
restaurant to occupy the upper level of the gub'ment building there.

The conspiracy mongers amongst us think it's by design, tied into
the ever present efforts to close RHV.

Not sure if it is still the case, but back when the vote on closing
RHV was before the country supervisors, it was reported that all
the businesses were on month-to-month leases to discourage long
term investment.

True or not, RHV could use some TLC.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.panix.com/~jac

Wow, I thought this was a rather inocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
to be classist and racist based solely on support of his favorite
aerodrome.

For the record, they're both fine airports. The wet rate for
your favorite airplane is higher at PAO. That's a fact. There
are restaurants near RHV that are good, and there are restaurants
near PAO that are good, too. Lunch near PAO will cost you more,
however.

Both airports can get busy, and you might wait at PAO sometimes,
though I have never waited more than 2-3 minutes unless waiting
for an IFR clearance (and that's going to be the same PAO or RHV)

Oddly enough, and worth repeating although it's been said already,
the weather at the two airports is quite a bit different. It's
hotter at RHV than PAO in the summer (note the Bay). There's
more moisture activity (fog, low clouds) at PAO than RHV (note
the Bay). Both airports have GPS approaches, and PAO has a
VOR approach which you can't get most of the time, anyway.
Some people think PAO has frequent difficult crosswinds. I
dunno... it's what I grew up with.

I have seen [nice|beater] [foreign|domesetic] [automobiles|aircraft]
at both airports.

I still stand by my statement that the traffic to get to RHV,
especially at peak and near-peak times (like cutting the afternoon
at work a little short) is the main reason I prefer PAO. I'm
starting from Santa Clara (office) and that's just how it works
out. Also, from Campbell (home), which is a good ten miles
closer to RHV than PAO, it's a faster drive on weekends.

-- dave j

Like Dave says. Honestly if people want to choose their airport
based on the preponderance, or not, of certain makes of car,
then that's their privilege, but it strikes me as odd.

Traffic (highway variety) is definitely a factor. My office is
about equidistant from the two (237/880) but PAO is
20 mins in normal rush hour traffic, and RHV is more like
45. From home (Mountain View) PAO is 10 mins just about
any time, and RHV doesn't bear thinking about at busy times.

My experience is mainly with PAO. Things can get a bit hectic
on fine weekend mornings, but the rest of the time there are
no significant delays for VFR. Both airports have three or more
decent flying clubs (based on what I've heard anyway). Sundance
at PAO is where I trained and I would recommend it to anyone.

If you want *interesting* aircraft at your field, go to LVK - home
to numerous warbirds, for which PAO and RHV don't have
long enough runways.

John

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
Wow, I thought this was a rather inocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
to be classist and racist based solely on support of his favorite
aerodrome.

For the record, they're both fine airports. The wet rate for
your favorite airplane is higher at PAO. That's a fact. There
are restaurants near RHV that are good, and there are restaurants
near PAO that are good, too. Lunch near PAO will cost you more,
however.

Both airports can get busy, and you might wait at PAO sometimes,
though I have never waited more than 2-3 minutes unless waiting
for an IFR clearance (and that's going to be the same PAO or RHV)

Oddly enough, and worth repeating although it's been said already,
the weather at the two airports is quite a bit different. It's
hotter at RHV than PAO in the summer (note the Bay). There's
more moisture activity (fog, low clouds) at PAO than RHV (note
the Bay). Both airports have GPS approaches, and PAO has a
VOR approach which you can't get most of the time, anyway.
Some people think PAO has frequent difficult crosswinds. I
dunno... it's what I grew up with.

I have seen [nice|beater] [foreign|domesetic] [automobiles|aircraft]
at both airports.

I still stand by my statement that the traffic to get to RHV,
especially at peak and near-peak times (like cutting the afternoon
at work a little short) is the main reason I prefer PAO. I'm
starting from Santa Clara (office) and that's just how it works
out. Also, from Campbell (home), which is a good ten miles
closer to RHV than PAO, it's a faster drive on weekends.

-- dave j

Wow, I thought this was a rather innocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
to be classist and racist based solely on support of his favorite
aerodrome.

Oh jeez,,, it was all tongue-in-cheek. He IS classist though (wink) By the
way, what model BMW do YOU drive? ... :-}~

I still stand by my statement that the traffic to get to RHV,
especially at peak and near-peak times (like cutting the afternoon
at work a little short) is the main reason I prefer PAO. I'm
starting from Santa Clara (office) and that's just how it works
out. Also, from Campbell (home), which is a good ten miles
closer to RHV than PAO, it's a faster drive on weekends.
Both airports can get busy, and you might wait at PAO sometimes,

==== Might???? Sometimes???? Is that what ya call PAO's 'parking lot' in
the run-up area...??? ;-)

If ya have the money to burn,, ,then go ahead,,, but I'd rather see my
flying dollars translate into the most flying time I can possibly get and
don't get me started on how 'fun' it is waiting to get sequenced out of PAO
versus RHV.

I have seen [nice|beater] [foreign|domestic] [automobiles|aircraft]
at both airports.

Naw,,,, PAO is BEAMer and Mercedes land,,,, any beat-up cars you see come
from the impoverished help that they hire to service the 'rich folks'.
Working folk fly out of RHV.... ;-)

For the record, they're both fine airports. The wet rate for
your favorite airplane is higher at PAO. That's a fact. There
are restaurants near RHV that are good, and there are restaurants
near PAO that are good, too. Lunch near PAO will cost you more,
however.

Yes they are LOTS higher!!! Suggestion for those who aren't in the know....
Go to Nice Air, take your lessons or rent a plane at a lower HOBBS and
INSTRUCTOR rate AND you WON'T HAVE TO PAY MEMBERSHIP OR MONTHLY DUES!!!!!

Ladies and gentleman,,,,, Cecil,,, has left the building....... ;-)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

"Cecil Chapman" wrote:

Oh jeez,,, it was all tongue-in-cheek. He IS classist though (wink) By the
way, what model BMW do YOU drive? ... :-}~

Okay, okay. You know, sometimes it's not so clear in email.
Not that I'm a huge fan of smileys, but sometimes they go
a long way.

I drive a non-luxury (though nice enough) car. Mustang
convertible.


[ the hobbs rates are higher ]

Yes they are LOTS higher!!! Suggestion for those who aren't in the know....
Go to Nice Air, take your lessons or rent a plane at a lower HOBBS and
INSTRUCTOR rate AND you WON'T HAVE TO PAY MEMBERSHIP OR MONTHLY DUES!!!!!

Okay, one nit about this.

At Sundance there is no daily minimum. I can take an aircraft
to O22, camp three days, fly back, and pay for 2.5 hours on the
Hobbs.

I don't know Nice Air's policy, but a friend of mine who uses
Tradewinds tells me that long trips are simply not practical
based on their hours/day minumims.

-- dave j

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:10:29 GMT, "Cecil Chapman"
wrote:

Wow, I thought this was a rather innocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
Oh jeez,,, it was all tongue-in-cheek. He IS classist though (wink)

And now you're insulting me... You will not be getting a checkmark next
to "Plays Well With Others" on your next report card, young man.

Ironically I was trying to give the original poster a frank and
hopefully helpful contrast between the two airports.. Just because I say
that PAO has more interesting airplanes to look at (please do look up
"personal opinion"), you're *still* taking potshots at me. I participate
in a lot of different on-line forums - many concerning aviation - and I
don't recall encountering anyone (at least recently) that is so prone to
be confrontational and offensive.

Jerk. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. "(wink)"

Dave Blevins

Nadeem,

Are you still sure you want to move to CA ? It's a good thing all the
warbirds are in LVK otherwise a shooting war could break out :-).

The issues about highway traffic and weather are both good ones. Like any
fairly congested area it all depends on the highway you take to the airport
and the time of day. You'll be here about 6 months before you figure out the
spots to completely avoid during commute times. Highway 101 south is a bear
during the evening, it easily takes me 40min to get from work (North 1st
St/237) to RHV. But from my home which is a bit further East I can take 680
south at the same time and be there in 15min (for about the same distance).

RHV is less effected by the marine layer fog which is very common on spring
and summer mornings. Its great to get a few easy minutes of IMC climbing out
in the morning, knowing that it will be gone when you return a couple of
hours later - but only if you've got an instrument rating. Otherwise, its a
frustrating wait for the fog to clear - it usually will clear from RHV
first. The GPS IFR approach to RHV sucks, the MDA is 1440' which often will
not be low enough to get under the fog. The usual trick is to fly the ILS
into SJC, cancel IFR when you break-out at about 1000' and get SVFR to RHV.
The GPS approach to PAO looks a lot better, with an MDA of 460', it might
actually be useful.

The Bay Area is a fun place to fly - no matter where you fly out of, you
will get used to talking to ATC. The landscape is beautiful and there are a
host of excellent flying destinations within an hour of flying time.

-Brenor

"Ishrat Zahid" wrote in message
...
I'm relocating to CA from MA in next few weeks and leaving my old flying
club here at LWM.
Wondering if I can get some good recommendation for flying clubs in the
bay area?
I'll be in Milpitas/San Jose area...
Thanks

/Nadeem

Thanks all...for replies...!!!
I got plenty of info to pick from...after I have managed my grocery
budget in CA :-)

/N

Brenor Brophy wrote:

Nadeem,

Are you still sure you want to move to CA ? It's a good thing all the
warbirds are in LVK otherwise a shooting war could break out :-).

The issues about highway traffic and weather are both good ones. Like any
fairly congested area it all depends on the highway you take to the airport
and the time of day. You'll be here about 6 months before you figure out the
spots to completely avoid during commute times. Highway 101 south is a bear
during the evening, it easily takes me 40min to get from work (North 1st
St/237) to RHV. But from my home which is a bit further East I can take 680
south at the same time and be there in 15min (for about the same distance).

RHV is less effected by the marine layer fog which is very common on spring
and summer mornings. Its great to get a few easy minutes of IMC climbing out
in the morning, knowing that it will be gone when you return a couple of
hours later - but only if you've got an instrument rating. Otherwise, its a
frustrating wait for the fog to clear - it usually will clear from RHV
first. The GPS IFR approach to RHV sucks, the MDA is 1440' which often will
not be low enough to get under the fog. The usual trick is to fly the ILS
into SJC, cancel IFR when you break-out at about 1000' and get SVFR to RHV.
The GPS approach to PAO looks a lot better, with an MDA of 460', it might
actually be useful.

The Bay Area is a fun place to fly - no matter where you fly out of, you
will get used to talking to ATC. The landscape is beautiful and there are a
host of excellent flying destinations within an hour of flying time.

-Brenor

"Ishrat Zahid" wrote in message
...


I'm relocating to CA from MA in next few weeks and leaving my old flying
club here at LWM.
Wondering if I can get some good recommendation for flying clubs in the
bay area?
I'll be in Milpitas/San Jose area...
Thanks

/Nadeem