Minden Airstrip Review

On 9/21/2013 8:51 AM, Ramy wrote:
The Truckee database covers the exact same area and is much more current. It is maintained by Sergio and myself. Last update was earlier this year. Still it may have outdated data, but at least anything that was brought to our attention was corrected. I recommend anyone flying from Reno area to use the Truckee database. However as others pointed out, if you can't get high enough (over 12K) it is not worth trying to go XC here. If you are at the normal altitude band, there are only few airports we occasionaly land at: Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport, Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan, Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.
These are the ones that comes to mind. I may have missed few. You probably don't need to consider more than that.

Ramy

Don't know a Flanigan Airport. Do know a Flanigan Turnpoint and a
Flanigan Dry Lake, which are several miles apart. Flanigan Dry Lake may
or may not be land-able depending on the season. Flanigan Turnpoint is
not land-able.

--
Mike I Green

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:41:17 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
Forgot to mention that I looked at your list and almost everything you listed I never considered as landable places (although they may be) other than Spaulding and both soldier meadows. The whole black rock dry lake is landable but we normally land as close to Gerlach as possible (should be on Truckee database). I dont think you would need to consider any of the others in any day worth flying XC.



Ramy

Ramy,

Have you guys considered coding all these marginal strips as 'outlanding' (type 3 in .CUP files, '(L)andable in .DAT files) rather than as an airport? My main intent in doing the review is to NOT aim at a marginal/non-existent airstrip, and absent a different appearance on my PDA, as a newcomer I won't know the difference. Just a thought, but it might help us newcomers ;-)

In the meantime, I'll probably modify the standard database to remove/re-code for my personal use.

Frank (TA)

On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).



I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.



I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at



https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list



Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)



If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.



Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).



One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!



Regards,



Frank (TA)


Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:59:05 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:

As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).







I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.







I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at







https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list







Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)







If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.







Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).







One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!







Regards,







Frank (TA)





Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.

Bill,

Good point, but they are much more likely to be tail-dragger oriented and not too worried about usable width. What a Maul or a 180 would consider perfectly acceptable might not work too well for an 18m glider ;-).

Frank (TA)

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02:55 AM UTC-4, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:

As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).







I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.







I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at







https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list







Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)







If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.







Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).







One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!







Regards,







Frank (TA)



Minden data base, like many others contain many old (questionable) entries. We update the new, but nobody removes any of the old stuff. I fly the place by selecting the best airport in each valley and then selecting it in the alternates page on my SN-10. If I can't make it over the Pine nuts, my alternate is back to Minden. In the Topaz Valley, I'm putting it on Topaz International (dirt strip on northern end). Same thing in the Palameno Valley, there are several marginal strips shown, but I just use Air Sailing if I get in trouble up there.

Hope this helps, looking forward to your accident review,

JJ

JJ,

Thanks for the information. BTW, I posted a complete accident review on Soaring
Cafe back in June ;-).

Frank (TA)

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:51:07 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
The Truckee database covers the exact same area and is much more current. It is maintained by Sergio and myself. Last update was earlier this year. Still it may have outdated data, but at least anything that was brought to our attention was corrected. I recommend anyone flying from Reno area to use the Truckee database. However as others pointed out, if you can't get high enough (over 12K) it is not worth trying to go XC here. If you are at the normal altitude band, there are only few airports we occasionaly land at: Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport, Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan, Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.

These are the ones that comes to mind. I may have missed few. You probably don't need to consider more than that.



Ramy

Ramy,

Thanks for taking the time to list out the most commonly used airports. I agree that all these aiports, with the exception of Flanigan (no airport found, waypoint is coded as non-landable) appear imminently landable even for 18m. Nervino is called 'Beckworth' in the Minden database, but 'Nervino' in AirNav and the FAA database. Don't know why the Minden database renamed it, but ... ;-).

Are you referring to the dry lake bed near Flanigan, and if so, can you comment on what parts of the year it is usable?

TIA,

Frank (TA)

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:49:19 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:59:05 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:

On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:



As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).















I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.















I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at















https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list















Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)















If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.















Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).















One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!















Regards,















Frank (TA)











Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.



Bill,



Good point, but they are much more likely to be tail-dragger oriented and not too worried about usable width. What a Maul or a 180 would consider perfectly acceptable might not work too well for an 18m glider ;-).



Frank (TA)

Of course you're right, some are completely unusable for gliders even though a tail dragger can land there. OTOH, some listings have runway width dimensions and excellent photos which give a glider pilot a pretty good idea what the field is like. The only way to know for sure is a "boots on the ground" reconnaissance of the strip. If anyone does that, please put a report on-line somewhere so other pilots can be informed.

Frank, I believe those are coded better in the Truckee database. We usually do as you suggested and mark the more questionable ones with L. Please review the Truckee database and let me know if otherwise.
As for Flanigan dry lake, it is landable during most summers unless it was a real wet year. It is also a short aero retrieve from Airsailing.

Ramy

On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).



I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.



I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at



https://drive.google.com/folderview?...sha ring#list



Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)



If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.



Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).



One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!



Regards,



Frank (TA)

I'm afraid my fingerprints are on the Minden data base. Names like Flying Mouse, Flying-M and Norvino were confusing and didn't clearly show the location. So, old JJ made them Hilton, Topaz and Beckworth.
Contest are regularly held at 3 locations around Reno and each have their own turnpoints. While other data bases may contain good info about landable spots, REMEMBER you must only use the turnpoints listed in the Minden data base when flying a contest at Minden. A few years back, a contestant claimed a turnpoint from Truckee when flying the Minden regionals................didn't have a good outcome.
Cheers,
JJ

Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.

Ramy