Oxygen Generators

Working as a tow pilot for a commercial operation, I get my oxygen for free.

As to a danger in a crash, when my partner crashed our LS-6a, the O2 bottle
mounted behind his left arm broke loose and made quite a gash in the back of
his arm just above the elbow.


"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
JohnDeRosa wrote, On 9/23/2013 9:23 AM:
Has anyone investigated the use of an oxygen generator rather than
carrying an O2 cylinder?

According to this study from sea level up to 18,000 it seems to work.
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get...er= ADA371747

"We conclude that from sea level to 18,000', molecular sieve based
O2 concentrators are capable of providing medical grade supplemental
O2 for at least 8 hours."

Pricey but for those the fly with O2 every day then over the long
term it would be cheaper as there would be no refills. Here is a
unit for $3K.
http://www.emedstores.com/xpo2-porta...extra-battery/

Might they be less dangerous in an accident? Is battery power an
issue?

Not a cost saver for glider pilots that fill their own bottles. I can fill
my 14 cf bottle for $5 from my welding bottle, then get 12 hours off of
it. It would take a lot of refills to pay for the $3000 unit.

I haven't heard of ox cylinders being a danger in glider accidents, so I
don't think the ox generator would help any.

I suspect it might not work well in flights where the cockpit temperature
goes below freezing, but did not look into it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Anybody look at those small liquid oxygen medical packs you see ambulatory patients wearing?

What have you guys got against a proper oxygen system?

All these quotations of the FARs, and electronic collision avoidance,
navigation, etc., and you want to skimp on BREATHING???

"Bill D" wrote in message
...
Anybody look at those small liquid oxygen medical packs you see ambulatory
patients wearing?

On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:41:31 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
What have you guys got against a proper oxygen system?


1. Size
2. Weight

Especially in 2-seaters, a decent sized compressed O2 system eats into the allowable cockpit payload and often takes up space the pilot would rather use for something else.

Agreed, but is there anything *legal* that suits your needs and yet is
certified above 10,000'? You don't really need O2 below that.

How about something proper, that's really small (fits behind the seat, etc.,
is easily removeable, and can be filled after each flight?

"Bill D" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:41:31 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
What have you guys got against a proper oxygen system?


1. Size
2. Weight

Especially in 2-seaters, a decent sized compressed O2 system eats into the
allowable cockpit payload and often takes up space the pilot would rather
use for something else.

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 8:12:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Agreed, but is there anything *legal* that suits your needs and yet is

certified above 10,000'? You don't really need O2 below that.



How about something proper, that's really small (fits behind the seat, etc.,

is easily removeable, and can be filled after each flight?



"Bill D" wrote in message

...

On Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:41:31 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:

What have you guys got against a proper oxygen system?





1. Size

2. Weight



Especially in 2-seaters, a decent sized compressed O2 system eats into the

allowable cockpit payload and often takes up space the pilot would rather

use for something else.

I think any portable O2 system is "legal".

I've searched the FAR's without finding mention of Oxygen other than 91.211, 121.333, 121.237 and 135.89 which just spell out when a flight crew has to use it.

The AOPA has a good article at:
http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/...se-in-Aviation
I like the part which says "oxygen is oxygen" and the use of ABO or some other source is "at the operators discretion".

LOX systems are "use it or lose it" since it eventually boils off whereas compressed O2 systems can set almost forever without losing pressure. There has to be a convenient way for patients who need LOX all the time to get refills.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, JohnDeRosa wrote:
Has anyone investigated the use of an oxygen generator rather than carrying an O2 cylinder?



According to this study from sea level up to 18,000 it seems to work. http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get...er= ADA371747



"We conclude that from sea level to 18,000', molecular sieve based O2 concentrators are capable of providing medical grade supplemental O2 for at least 8 hours."



Pricey but for those the fly with O2 every day then over the long term it would be cheaper as there would be no refills. Here is a unit for $3K. http://www.emedstores.com/xpo2-porta...extra-battery/



Might they be less dangerous in an accident? Is battery power an issue?



- John

A couple of good articles on O2 from Mountain High.

http://www.craggyaero.com/O2main.htm

O2 can be purchase at many industrial gas outlets and is relatively inexpensive. ABO is the same as welding O2 but usually is a little more expensive and comes in a bottle marked ABO. Large bottles have the downside that you usually have to rent them and you need a transfill system to fill the glider bottles. If you take your glider bottle to the outlet they will check the test date on the bottle, if out of date they probably will not fill it, so be aware. The bottle test date is not an FAA requirement. It is regulated by the DOT.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:18:36 AM UTC-6, Richard wrote:
On Monday, September 23, 2013 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, JohnDeRosa wrote:

Has anyone investigated the use of an oxygen generator rather than carrying an O2 cylinder?







According to this study from sea level up to 18,000 it seems to work. http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get...er= ADA371747







"We conclude that from sea level to 18,000', molecular sieve based O2 concentrators are capable of providing medical grade supplemental O2 for at least 8 hours."







Pricey but for those the fly with O2 every day then over the long term it would be cheaper as there would be no refills. Here is a unit for $3K. http://www.emedstores.com/xpo2-porta...extra-battery/







Might they be less dangerous in an accident? Is battery power an issue?







- John



A couple of good articles on O2 from Mountain High.



http://www.craggyaero.com/O2main.htm



O2 can be purchase at many industrial gas outlets and is relatively inexpensive. ABO is the same as welding O2 but usually is a little more expensive and comes in a bottle marked ABO. Large bottles have the downside that you usually have to rent them and you need a transfill system to fill the glider bottles. If you take your glider bottle to the outlet they will check the test date on the bottle, if out of date they probably will not fill it, so be aware. The bottle test date is not an FAA requirement. It is regulated by the DOT.



Richard

www.craggyaero.com

A counter guy once showed me how a bottle of O2 gets the ABO sticker. If the rube at the counter asks for "aviation oxygen" he grabbed a sticker on the way to the warehouse and slapped it on the first O2 cylinder he found. In their computer the SKU for "aviation oxygen" differed from the one for welding oxygen only in price. $112 for ABO and $25 for welding O2.

if you have a tendency to cold hands, that means that your perfusion to the extremity is poorer. Not necessarily a problem but your 02 sat will read lower than your core saturations. this can happen even at sea level.

Mark J