class C and B comms on sectionals?

"Magnus" wrote in message
...
[...]
1. Why would they use VOR radials for this on a VFR chart, when a VOR
isn't even required for VFR flight?

Someone else answered that. You don't need a VOR receiver to be able to
know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR.

2. The C airspace set up for Jacksonville international doesn't even
have a VOR.

Is there a source where I can get more information on the legend that
the sectionals have?

I'm still trying to figure out why it matters. At an airport without a VOR,
obviously they cannot be radials from the VOR. At an airport with a VOR,
the difference between a radial and a bearing from the airport is, for the
purposes of determining which frequency to use for ATC, inconsequential. If
you are so close to the radial/bearing that it makes a difference, the right
frequency to use is the one for the sector you're about the fly into,
regardless of which side of which boundary you happen to be on.

The only boundary case I can see even coming close to mattering is if you
happen to be flying inbound or outbound right smack on the boundary itself.
My guess is that in that case, ATC doesn't care which sector you contact.
If they do, it is easy enough for them to send you over to the correct one,
if you happen to choose the wrong one.

If I had to guess, I'd guess it's bearing from the airport, for the reasons
pointed out already (that defining it as VOR radials would be meaningless at
an airport without a VOR). But in reality, the sectors can be chopped up
differently from what's on the chart anyway, due to those pesky letters of
agreement. Use the chart as a guideline as best you can, and if you get it
wrong, no big deal. ATC will straighten things out.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

Someone else answered that. You don't need a VOR receiver to
be able to know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR.


No navigation equipment is required for VFR entry of Class B or C airspace.
How does one know where a VOR radial is without using any navigation
equipment?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news
No navigation equipment is required for VFR entry of Class B or C
airspace.

So? What's that got to do with this thead?

How does one know where a VOR radial is without using any navigation
equipment?

Look at your chart. When you can see out the window, this is a much more
reliable way of identifying a VOR radial than using the actual radio (which
is permitted to have as much as 6 degrees of error anyway).

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

So? What's that got to do with this thead?


It was a response to the statement, "You don't need a VOR receiver to be
able to know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR." You don't see the
connection?



Look at your chart. When you can see out the window, this is a
much more reliable way of identifying a VOR radial than using
the actual radio (which is permitted to have as much as 6 degrees
of error anyway).


Please explain how it's done.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
et...
It was a response to the statement, "You don't need a VOR receiver to be
able to know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR." You don't see the
connection?

No, I don't.

Please explain how it's done.

For VORs with a printed compass rose, it's trivial. The compass rose will
be oriented to match the radials, and you simply plot the radial based on
that. For VORs without a printed compass rose, just correct magnetic
heading with the deviation for the VOR, and plot the radial based on that.

Either way, you get a line that is drawn on your chart. You use your
eyeballs to visually identify landmarks on the ground that show you where
the line is.

Honestly, it makes me wonder how you ever became a pilot, given that you
can't figure out basic stuff like this. You must find it difficult just to
navigate your way out of a paper bag.

Pete

I don't have an operational problem with using the chart and I know
that approach control won't go crazy if I somehow manage to use the
wrong frequency.

My issue is being told by a designated examiner something that a:
doesn't make sense and b: she can't back up with a source

It's not the radials that's the problem, it's the selected starting
point from where the bearings in the legend should extend. Claiming
that the bearings should extend from anything other than the primary
airport for the airspace seems crazy to me.

Apart from the fact that some airports don't have VORs, even if it
does, your not flying to a VOR, you're flying to the airport and the
airport and VOR don't necessarily have to be co-located so to me, the
reference point naturally should be the airport and not any nav-aid
that happens to be in the area.

But like I said, I'd like to find a proper source where I can read
about these charts.


On 2004-04-24 12:33:25 -0400, "Steven P. McNicoll"
said:


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

Someone else answered that. You don't need a VOR receiver to
be able to know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR.


No navigation equipment is required for VFR entry of Class B or C airspace.
How does one know where a VOR radial is without using any navigation
equipment?

"Magnus" wrote in message
...

I don't have an operational problem with using the chart and I know
that approach control won't go crazy if I somehow manage to use the
wrong frequency.

My issue is being told by a designated examiner something that a:
doesn't make sense and b: she can't back up with a source


Indicators that she's quite probably mistaken.

Well then. there you have it..

A DE gave you bad information

(s)he is human. It happens. Old Wives tales get passed on and bad
information perpetuates itself.

SHould it happen? No. Does it happen? Yes.

What can you do? If you REALLY want to, refer it to the FSDO and they
can point it out to the examiner. You didnt (improperly) receive a
notice of disapproval over it did you? You have your ticket so go out
there and use it, and chalk this up to experience.

Dave

Magnus wrote:
I don't have an operational problem with using the chart and I know that
approach control won't go crazy if I somehow manage to use the wrong
frequency.

My issue is being told by a designated examiner something that a:
doesn't make sense and b: she can't back up with a source

It's not the radials that's the problem, it's the selected starting
point from where the bearings in the legend should extend. Claiming that
the bearings should extend from anything other than the primary airport
for the airspace seems crazy to me.

Apart from the fact that some airports don't have VORs, even if it does,
your not flying to a VOR, you're flying to the airport and the airport
and VOR don't necessarily have to be co-located so to me, the reference
point naturally should be the airport and not any nav-aid that happens
to be in the area.

But like I said, I'd like to find a proper source where I can read about
these charts.


On 2004-04-24 12:33:25 -0400, "Steven P. McNicoll"
said:


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...


Someone else answered that. You don't need a VOR receiver to
be able to know where a VOR radial is, when flying VFR.


No navigation equipment is required for VFR entry of Class B or C
airspace.
How does one know where a VOR radial is without using any navigation
equipment?

How does one know where a VOR radial is without using any navigation
equipment?


Look out the window. The radials are painted on the ground. every five
degrees.

Jose

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