THE AVIATORS Soaring Episode

On 2/8/2014 12:18 PM, wrote:
You jaded purveyors of motorless flight should view this video with less
than your normal gimlet eye. The video was made for the unwashed masses of
those who are engine dependent with the idea of at least rousing their
curiosity. Snip...

I haven't watched this show, but kinda-sorta in the same vein...

The February issue of EAA's "Sport Aviation" magazine has (for the 2nd
consecutive month) a very nicely done article by EAA's Brady Lane about his
experiences (all favorable) at/with Harris Hill Soaring Club. Lane is a fairly
newbie power pilot (within the past 5-or-so years), and by my reading of all
his articles since he joined EAA - out of school, I believe - an insightful
young(-ish) man.

Here's a couple of short quotes from the February article:
- Soon I would voluntarily, purposefully, and permanently "lose" my engine.
Why would a sane pilot do such a thing? Having options is what makes flying
safe, and a power source provides options.
- I understand an airplane can fly without an engine - it's called an emergency.
- I've never been afraid of gliding, but if I don't have an engine producing
thrust, I consider the rest of the flight an emergency.
- "You nervous about flying with a 17-year-old?" my pilot asked as he helped
me buckle into the back seat of an ASK-21.
"Not at all," I responded. "I'm nervous about not having an engine." He
laughed, but he didn't understand. After all he had never flown *with* an engine.

While Brady might be wrong about that last surmise (his ride-giver was a
3rd-generation glider pilot), note the TWO "emergency" comments, preceding his
last vocalized one. In my estimation (and observations and discussions over
the years), "the average power pilot" DOES consider power loss a -
life-threatening!!! - emergency...and flies accordingly when it happens. (We
all fly best, tense, right?) That's one reason I much prefer to ride in GA
powerplanes only with "add-on power ratings" glider pilots (alternatively, XC
comfortable ones, if they got their power rating first). Their attitude is
more likely to be - after a power loss - "Crud...guess we'll be landing over
THERE." Power loss as an inconvenience vs. power loss as an emergency...

I'd bet Brady's outlook before he bellied up to the soaring bar, is Really
Common in the power-only community, even limiting it to only single-engine
lightplane types.

On his second ride (front seat, with the 1st generation pilot of his 1st-ride
pilot), they soared. From his article, one can sense blinders falling from his
eyes.

Bob W.

P.S. I e-mailed him with a warm fuzzy - and *Thanks!* - after the February
article.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 6:14:08 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
On 2/8/2014 12:18 PM, wrote:

You jaded purveyors of motorless flight should view this video with less

than your normal gimlet eye. The video was made for the unwashed masses of

those who are engine dependent with the idea of at least rousing their

curiosity. Snip...



I haven't watched this show, but kinda-sorta in the same vein...



The February issue of EAA's "Sport Aviation" magazine has (for the 2nd

consecutive month) a very nicely done article by EAA's Brady Lane about his

experiences (all favorable) at/with Harris Hill Soaring Club. Lane is a fairly

newbie power pilot (within the past 5-or-so years), and by my reading of all

his articles since he joined EAA - out of school, I believe - an insightful

young(-ish) man.



Here's a couple of short quotes from the February article:

- Soon I would voluntarily, purposefully, and permanently "lose" my engine.

Why would a sane pilot do such a thing? Having options is what makes flying

safe, and a power source provides options.

- I understand an airplane can fly without an engine - it's called an emergency.

- I've never been afraid of gliding, but if I don't have an engine producing

thrust, I consider the rest of the flight an emergency.

- "You nervous about flying with a 17-year-old?" my pilot asked as he helped

me buckle into the back seat of an ASK-21.

"Not at all," I responded. "I'm nervous about not having an engine." He

laughed, but he didn't understand. After all he had never flown *with* an engine.



While Brady might be wrong about that last surmise (his ride-giver was a

3rd-generation glider pilot), note the TWO "emergency" comments, preceding his

last vocalized one. In my estimation (and observations and discussions over

the years), "the average power pilot" DOES consider power loss a -

life-threatening!!! - emergency...and flies accordingly when it happens. (We

all fly best, tense, right?) That's one reason I much prefer to ride in GA

powerplanes only with "add-on power ratings" glider pilots (alternatively, XC

comfortable ones, if they got their power rating first). Their attitude is

more likely to be - after a power loss - "Crud...guess we'll be landing over

THERE." Power loss as an inconvenience vs. power loss as an emergency...



I'd bet Brady's outlook before he bellied up to the soaring bar, is Really

Common in the power-only community, even limiting it to only single-engine

lightplane types.



On his second ride (front seat, with the 1st generation pilot of his 1st-ride

pilot), they soared. From his article, one can sense blinders falling from his

eyes.



Bob W.



P.S. I e-mailed him with a warm fuzzy - and *Thanks!* - after the February

article.

What Bob W. said.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/s...uary_2014#pg38

Frank Whiteley

Some may not know that Manfred does a show at Sun N Fun.

http://radiusairshows.com/index.htm

Gravity does not power our gliders. The forward tilt of lift is what moves us forward. The sun powers our gliders. ( after the initial boost from dead dinosaurs)

Gravity does not power our gliders. The forward tilt of lift is what moves
us forward. The sun powers our gliders. ( after the initial boost from dead
dinosaurs)


What came first, the chicken or the egg? I'm with you on the sun being the
power, but I gotta ask - what provides the forward tilt of lift?

Bob - I'll rack out now - W.

On 2/8/2014 10:13 PM, Bob Whelan wrote:
Gravity does not power our gliders. The forward tilt of lift is what moves
us forward. The sun powers our gliders. ( after the initial boost from dead
dinosaurs)


What came first, the chicken or the egg? I'm with you on the sun being the
power, but I gotta ask - what provides the forward tilt of lift?

Bob - I'll rack out now - W.

Sheesh...I really SHOULD rack out. I'll admit Mr. Sun is crucially important
to us actually soaring (i.e. gaining energy), nonetheless I'm pretty sure the
glider would still move forward in the absence of sunlight...but the FAA
frowns on my testing that hypothesis.

Bob - gravity never quits - W.

In article writes:
On 2/8/2014 10:13 PM, Bob Whelan wrote:
Gravity does not power our gliders. The forward tilt of lift is what moves
us forward. The sun powers our gliders. ( after the initial boost from dead
dinosaurs)


What came first, the chicken or the egg? I'm with you on the sun being the
power, but I gotta ask - what provides the forward tilt of lift?

Bob - I'll rack out now - W.

Sheesh...I really SHOULD rack out. I'll admit Mr. Sun is crucially important
to us actually soaring (i.e. gaining energy), nonetheless I'm pretty sure the
glider would still move forward in the absence of sunlight...but the FAA
frowns on my testing that hypothesis.

Bob - gravity never quits - W.


The glider would move without sunlight, but (short of the energy applied
during tow), the energy for climbing comes from sunlight.

Gravity provides a force to hold the air here, and a force to act through
distance (altitude) to provide us with foot-pounds of energy.

The forward tilt of lift is a result of the aircraft pitch angle.

Alan

Waveguru wrote:
Gravity does not power our gliders. The forward tilt of lift is what moves us forward.

Say what now?!?

You're flying in equilibrium, in unaccelerated straight line flight at a
speed just above the stall. You have a nose high attitude and a line
perpendicular to your wing surface is pointing rearwards. Where is the
"forward tilt of lift"? You'd need a lift distribution shaped like a
flaccid.....err, a slinky that's toppled forward to sustain this
hypothesis.

Your 'forward pointing force', the one that's opposing drag and "replacing
thrust" if you're of the powered persuasion, is the forward component of
weight. So yes, gravity is indeed our "engine".

CJ
B3

A rock has air and gravity when you drop it, but does not move forward through the air. Our wings provide our thrust to move us horizontally.

Boggs

Waveguru wrote:
A rock has air and gravity when you drop it, but does not move forward
through the air. Our wings provide our thrust to move us horizontally.

Boggs

A rock doesn't fall in equilibrium (until terminal velocity at least) and
it's forces operate in only one plane - the vertical. Can we compare apples
with apples please?

If you have sound reasoning to offer and preferably, a vector diagram, I'm
all ears.

CJ
B3