Almost saw someone crash

On Sat, 22 May 2004 14:37:19 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

It was a very frustrating situation- she had nearly killed herself,
apparently knew why it had happened, and seemed to think this was a normal
activity of flying (let alone damaging her 1997 Bonanza A-36)

Last week, on another aviation forum, a new pilot was happily relating his
first successful cross country flight with his family -- a 500 mile trip
that took him into some complex airspace on the East coast of the U.S.

As I was reading along, filled with the glow of remembering *my* first long
trip, I was astounded to read that he had run a fuel tank dry on final
approach! Almost in passing he casually mentioned that he was forced to
quickly switch to the fullest tank, and the engine re-started. He landed
normally.

I couldn't believe that anyone could treat a complete engine failure on
final with such utter disdain, but this very low-time pilot spoke of it as

Haven't had one *yet* huh? :-))

Been there and done that. Do a lot of traveling and even using check
lists you are likely to forget to switch one of these days.

I did it practicing approaches with an instructor.

We had been flying for several hours and I had switched to the aux
tanks for the trip back from GDW to MBS. We did the ILS, the
published missed and hold, then another ILS. On the missed the engine
quit instantly. No rough running or losing power, it suddenly quit.

It was a reflex action to reach for the tank switch, but over in the
right seat I was hearing, "Left tank Rog! Left tank!", but by the time
he got out the first "left" I had already switched.

It wasn't enough to even raise the adrenalin levels, yet on the way
back to the hold, the instructor said (in his gravely voice and I wish
I could convey the emphasis in writing). "Man.... Was that a rush or
what?"

if this sort of thing were normal and an expected part of flying. It was no
greater part of his story than his description of the FBO's on-field
restaurant.

If all I had to do was reach for the tank switch I wouldn't get
excited. I might berate myself for forgetting to switch, but that
would be it. Now if the other tank was already low that would be a
different story as I'm paranoid about carrying plenty of fuel for any
trip. I rarely go any where without topping off the tanks and I
carry 5 1/2 hours worth. I will set down when I get near one hour
left even if only a half hour from my destination.

The only trip I can recall where I took off with less than full tanks
was with about half fuel and that was from Jefco loaded to gross for
the density altitude.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


I guess some people are just less risk averse than others?

It was a very frustrating situation- she had nearly killed herself,
apparently knew why it had happened, and seemed to think this was a normal
activity of flying (let alone damaging her 1997 Bonanza A-36)

This sounds like the type of person who ends up killing her passengers or
people on the ground, walks away unscathed, and then gets rich by sueing the
aircraft manufacturer.

Larry aka: "Mr Optimism"
"Get off a fast first shot...Make the second one count!"
TIGER

In a previous article, (LF TIGER) said:
It was a very frustrating situation- she had nearly killed herself,
apparently knew why it had happened, and seemed to think this was a normal
activity of flying (let alone damaging her 1997 Bonanza A-36)

This sounds like the type of person who ends up killing her passengers or
people on the ground, walks away unscathed, and then gets rich by sueing the
aircraft manufacturer.

Oh, you mean Steve Wozniak?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish. And if he can't
be bothered to learn to fish and starves to death, that's a good enough
outcome for me. -- Steve VanDevender

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Oh, you mean Steve Wozniak?


How many times did Wozniak crash?

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Oh, you mean Steve Wozniak?


How many times did Wozniak crash?

Only once. But he sued Beech afterwards because the plane didn't prevent
him from getting behind the yoke without any experience or instruction in
a complex plane.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
So logically, if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood, and
therefore a witch.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Only once. But he sued Beech afterwards because the plane
didn't prevent him from getting behind the yoke without any
experience or instruction in a complex plane.


Just once? Then how is Wozniak the type of person who ends up killing his
passengers or people on the ground, walks away unscathed, and then gets rich
by suing the aircraft manufacturer?

(Paul Tomblin) writes:

Oh, you mean Steve Wozniak?
How many times did Wozniak crash?

Only once. But he sued Beech afterwards because the plane didn't prevent
him from getting behind the yoke without any experience or instruction in
a complex plane.

Google couldn't find much raw web material on this 1981 incident
involving N2WZ, but according to their Usenet archive, he did not win
the lawsuit.

http://tinyurl.com/2l624

- FChE

Woz managed to make a little money from Apple as well.

Michael


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
This sounds like the type of person who ends up killing her passengers or
people on the ground, walks away unscathed, and then gets rich by sueing
the
aircraft manufacturer.

Oh, you mean Steve Wozniak?

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...

I'd be interested in hearing how the group would have reacted to this
situation.

Incidents and pilots like this are unfortunately not uncommon at all in
aviation. I've seen this from the lowest levels of aviation to the
highest levels. You learn after a while in this business that all you
can do is make an attempt to keep someone like this from killing
themselves...and that's all you can do.
In the end, flying is a lot like being alone with yourself on the golf
course. If you cheat, you're only cheating yourself. The only difference
is that if you cheat at flying you can kill other people as well as
yourself.
Flying, and the responsibility that goes with it is one of the most
intensive self motivating endeavors I can imagine. The laws are the
established laws of physics and aerodynamics that govern the environment
we have chosen to live in up there. The rules have been placed there by
us, for us to follow so that we have a fair chance to survive our use of
the laws. The problem is that unfortunately there are those among us,
and always will be those among us, who not only bend the rules, but bend
the laws as well.
You generally don't make it through the entire way to a natural death by
doing this.
So where does this leave us as pilots when we are witness to some idiot
hell bent on bending the rules and defying the laws? If we're decent
people, and most of us are, we make an attempt, directly or indirectly,
to help straighten someone out; but basic intelligence should tell us
that this is the extent of what we can do. If the idiot can't see the
problem as self correct, it's a fool's burden to carry the weight of
their failure on our shoulders.
You do what you can to make people safer as you pass through, but you
can't pick up their failure to comply as a failure by you to change them
if this isn't possible.
Trust me on this one. I have first hand experience!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
[...]
I'd be interested in hearing how the group would have reacted to this
situation.

I'm not sure how I would have reacted, since I wasn't there.

However, it's my opinion that the aviation community could use more Serpicos
and fewer "true blues". Loyalty at all costs has little place in most
communities, but especially in the aviation community where safety takes a
lot of work to come by, and where innocent people can be killed by
irresponsible pilots, pilots need to be willing to take action when they see
someone else behaving so irresponsibly.

You don't mention what the outcome of the wingtip damage was. At flying
speed, even a brief whack at the end of the wing could bend something
important. I'm left wondering whether a) the pilot did depart again with
the damage, and b) whether the NTSB had been notified of the in-flight
collision that presumably caused "substantial damage". Immediate
notification would not be required in this case, but the NTSB still requires
a report within 10 days. The local FSDO as well would probably be
interested in hearing about the pilot, due to the various FAR violations.

CJ is right that there's a possibility her post-accident attitude reflected
her fear, rather than an oblivious attitude. However, if that were true,
you'd probably have been able to notice other symptoms of her being shaken
up. Adrenalin suppresses some fear reactions, but it comes with its own
side-effects. If she truly seemed totally okay with the whole situation,
Newps guess is probably more likely to be correct.

In any case, whether she was shaken up or not, it's obvious she exercised
poor preflight planning and proceeded into weather that she had no business
flying in. I would be less concerned about her psychological reaction to
the event, and more concerned that the event happened in the first place.

Pete