Cherokee 180 from Bay Area to Bishop (KBIH) ?

route is nearly as short as possible. ... but 13.5k in a very nearly
max gross PA28-180... I dunno. Could be fine....
Going up to 13500, I'm legal for up to 30 minutes, but is it smart?

13.5 I think is the ceiling and that is at standard temp/pressure.
Have you checked out the temperatures at that altitude. They
very well might be above that temperature so you might only be able to
ge up to 12000 MSL.

Gerald

I faced a similar problem when I took the SR20 by this
route. Although I was below gross, the climb rate was
pitiful even at reasonable altitides (this is the same plane
that got an oil overtemp trying to climb out of LAS).
13500 on a summer day was above its ceiling, so getting
there was a slow business at 100-200 ft/min for
the last thousand feet or so. otoh you've got plenty
of time to get there since you have the whole central
valley and foothills. And if really you see you're not going
to get enough altitude, you can always turn tail and do
the Bakersfield thing. You'll have lost some time but
hey, you'll have tried (obviously assumes you can carry
enough fuel for the backup to be viable).

My take would be: if you are just flying to get there,
wimp out and go via Bakersfield. If you like flying
for the enjoyment of it, try one of the Tioga routes,
and be preprade to wimp out if you have to.

One other tip: if you are flying on the limit of O2
altitudes, use the deep breathing trick. It's been
written up several times, though I don't remember
where. Take long deep breaths, slower than normal.
I have an oximeter in the plane and this increases
my O2 saturation by 5-7 points.

John

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
Argh!!! This is starting to drive me crazy. I cannot for the life of
me figure out how I want to do this flight.

Tioga pass or nearby is very tempting. It looks spectacular, and the
route is nearly as short as possible. ... but 13.5k in a very nearly
max gross PA28-180... I dunno. Could be fine. I'll know when I'm in
the air. Also, I have no O2 system. Did you go with an oxygen system?
Going up to 13500, I'm legal for up to 30 minutes, but is it smart?

What's killing me is how lame the other options a

1. take I80, I guess, all the way to Reno, then south to KBIH. It's
getting close to a 3 hr trip that way.

2. up to TVL, then southeast through "Luther Pass," then east to
interstate 395 and down. Longer, and not much lower.

3. wimp-out: almost to Bakersfield, then over much lower terrain.
Much, much, much longer. Probably would do fuel/bio stop on that one.

Of course, nobody on this group is going to tell me what to do, and
that's how it should be. I need to make up my own mind. But more info
is certainly better.

I wish I had some flight planning software with terrain in it. It's
actually kind of tricky to see what flying a pass will really be like
by looking at a sectional.

-- dave j
--



"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1087281711.160331@sj-nntpcache-3...
The pass just south of Tioga is beautiful, or Tioga itself.
The nice thing is that if you do have an engine problem,
Tuolomine is right down there. In fact you'd be in better
shape just there than earlier in the flight over the mountains,
or on the other routes suggested. (Landing on I-80?
Well, maybe). The first time I did it it almost literally
took my breath away as suddenly the ground disappears
from under you. I recommend 13500, which will keep
you 2000 AGL and above (though not much) the
surrounding peaks.

Obviously not to be done if there's significant wind
(I hit a rotor once, and while it was instructive I'm
not in a big hurry to do it again).

John

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
I'm thinking of taking myself and three others (littlish people) to
Bishop next weekend in a Cherokee 180.

I've limited mountain flying experience, but have had an intructor
checkout for it and have read a few books on the subject.

My assessment is that the aircraft's service ceiling (13,700, I
believe) and loading (about 200 lb under gross by my first-swag
calculations) will get us over the highest terrain (looks to be less
than 11,500 if I carefuly fly the pass near KMMH) with my personal
minimum of 2000 AGL over mtns.

I won't do the trip if there appears to be significant wind blowing
across the range.

To me, this says this flight is possible. It's not all the margin in
the world, but it's adequate. I'd prefer to be higher, and maybe the
aircraft will get us there, but it seems like it'd be high enough.

I'd like to hear someone else's ideas, though. I'm in the "Killing
Zone," you know. (260 hrs, PP-ASEL, IR)

PS -- plan is to do this flight early am, arrive BIH 9-10.

thanks,
Dave Jacobowitz
jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo -dot- come