Scud running fatal in Maine

Oh right, I forgot that she would have been starting off in Class G. I'm
used to thinking about what I need to get out of our Class C.

--

Roger Long



"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:Xb%Wc.312020$%_6.145966@attbi_s01...
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Of course, that could have meant revealing that she set off on
a less than legal VFR flight

The flight may have been unwise, but wasn't the weather (as reported at
MLT)
legal for daytime VFR in Class G as long as she stayed below the 700'
ceiling?

--Gary

Roger Long wrote:

Her option would have been to wait for better weather or climb and file pop
up for diversion to an airport with an approach if things were lower than
she thought.

How would she divert to an airport if she's got straight floats? There are seaplane
bases with approaches in the area?

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

In article ,
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

How would she divert to an airport if she's got straight floats?

Landing on a hard surface on straight floats sure sounds preferable
to what happened...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:7x8Xc.68953$mD.5233@attbi_s02...
How would she divert to an airport if she's got straight floats?

Landing on a hard surface on straight floats sure sounds preferable
to what happened...


I saw on the news last year that an amphibian had landed wheels up and close
the airport briefly until it could be towed away. I looked at our tiedown
neighbor's floats to see if it had been him but everything looked OK.
Turned out that it was him! The keels on his floats were a quarter inch
narrower than they had been before but it was no big deal.

--

Roger Long

What drives a pilot with her skills to be so...assaholic?


"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
This accident was up our way and I followed the progress of the search.
On
the basis of the weather on the day the plane disappeared, I expected to
find that it was a new pilot in over her head. Just goes to show that
lots
of experience and type ratings don't make scud running a good idea.
14,500
hour big iron driver with 20 years in float planes who could have filed
and
executed an IFR flight plan in her sleep hits a hill in 700 foot ceilings.

Another high time Mainer who could have been IFR up above the hills did
the
same thing a few years back and set a great example for the Air Explorers
Troop he founded. They are naming a new Boy Scout center near PWM after
him.

http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?...18X01248&key=1

--

Roger Long

This is the kind of accident that scares me the most. As someone
posted earlier, you'd expect a rookie pilot to get sucked into this
kind of accident, but not someone with the experience this pilot had.
Leaves me wondering if there are weather conditions out there that can
be misleading to experienced pilots, which means someone with less
experience (like me) wouldn't stand a chance of recognizing the risk
in a timely fashion.

Some details on the accident that I've picked up through various
media. The pilot and her husband owned KT Aviation, a seaplane
instruction and charter business in Maine. Both were pilots for
airlines when they started the business, but the husband's airline
went out of business allowing him to devote more time to KT Aviation.
Reports I've read said the fatal flight was enroute to pick up
charterers. A magazine article from more than a year ago said the
business was trying to expand the charter side of the operation since
that revenue source tended to be more reliable than seaplane
instruction.

This is the kind of accident that scares me the most. As someone
posted earlier, you'd expect a rookie pilot to get sucked into this
kind of accident, but not someone with the experience this pilot had.
Leaves me wondering if there are weather conditions out there that can
be misleading to experienced pilots

Well said. I've often wondered how pilots get themselves into this sort of
thing.

Is the problem a gradual lowering of the ceiling as they drone along,
oblivious to the growing danger? Is there a weather phenomenon that I've
never experienced that can slam the sunroof shut quickly -- faster than a
pilot can get on the ground? (I've seen fog envelop an airport in minutes,
going from CAVU to 1/10th mile visibility almost instantly -- but that fog
was rolling in off a lake, and could have been easily out-run.)

Is it just old-fashioned "get-there-itis," an internal pressure that they
"must" get there for some reason? Or is it that they've "seen this a
thousand times" and always made it through before, so why should today be
any different?

I know as my flying hours have built, I've grown more comfortable with a
wider range of weather conditions. Is this "experience"? Or
"familiarity"? Or an insidious, gradual and foolish lowering of my
instinctive defenses?

Accidents like hers make you sit up and take notice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I've often wondered, usually while driving over the hills on the Mass
turnpike and sort of mentally flying myself through them, if the overcast
can fool you into thinking you are looking at the top of the hill when it's
actually in the clouds. A pilot might even pull up into the clouds for a
little extra clearance and plan to ease down on the other side. I've seen
lots of overcast up close in the hills that I could easily see suckering you
into a hill top; especially making decisions at twice automotive speed.

--

Roger Long



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:0E0Xc.57436$Fg5.30391@attbi_s53...
This is the kind of accident that scares me the most. As someone
posted earlier, you'd expect a rookie pilot to get sucked into this
kind of accident, but not someone with the experience this pilot had.
Leaves me wondering if there are weather conditions out there that can
be misleading to experienced pilots

Well said. I've often wondered how pilots get themselves into this sort
of
thing.

Is the problem a gradual lowering of the ceiling as they drone along,
oblivious to the growing danger? Is there a weather phenomenon that I've
never experienced that can slam the sunroof shut quickly -- faster than a
pilot can get on the ground? (I've seen fog envelop an airport in
minutes,
going from CAVU to 1/10th mile visibility almost instantly -- but that fog
was rolling in off a lake, and could have been easily out-run.)

Is it just old-fashioned "get-there-itis," an internal pressure that they
"must" get there for some reason? Or is it that they've "seen this a
thousand times" and always made it through before, so why should today be
any different?

I know as my flying hours have built, I've grown more comfortable with a
wider range of weather conditions. Is this "experience"? Or
"familiarity"? Or an insidious, gradual and foolish lowering of my
instinctive defenses?

Accidents like hers make you sit up and take notice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

This kind of accident seems a little too easy to fall into as soon as you
find yourself:
- Scud running (pick your definition)
- In non-flat terrain (remember manmade obstructions)
- in terrain that isn't as familiar as the back of your hand (catch-22 here)
- With a commitment at the other end (see get-home-itis)

Float planes sometimes rely on numerous landing areas - makes risky flights
even more attractive.

This pilot's experience could be described as mostly flying a/c and missions
that most weather can't stop. Perhaps a little confusion was experienced
vis-a-vis VFR light a/c work.

I would submit that IFR is the way to avoid scud running and the terrain.
This flight obviously could not be made IFR.

But everytime one does a VFR scud run to a destination that has an approach
or can be accessed by an approach, one is taking more risk than they need
to.

Don't you think?

"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
I've often wondered, usually while driving over the hills on the Mass
turnpike and sort of mentally flying myself through them, if the overcast
can fool you into thinking you are looking at the top of the hill when
it's
actually in the clouds. A pilot might even pull up into the clouds for a
little extra clearance and plan to ease down on the other side. I've seen
lots of overcast up close in the hills that I could easily see suckering
you
into a hill top; especially making decisions at twice automotive speed.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:0E0Xc.57436$Fg5.30391@attbi_s53...
This is the kind of accident that scares me the most. As someone
posted earlier, you'd expect a rookie pilot to get sucked into this
kind of accident, but not someone with the experience this pilot had.
Leaves me wondering if there are weather conditions out there that can
be misleading to experienced pilots

Well said. I've often wondered how pilots get themselves into this sort
of
thing.

Is the problem a gradual lowering of the ceiling as they drone along,
oblivious to the growing danger? Is there a weather phenomenon that
I've
never experienced that can slam the sunroof shut quickly -- faster than
a
pilot can get on the ground? (I've seen fog envelop an airport in
minutes,
going from CAVU to 1/10th mile visibility almost instantly -- but that
fog
was rolling in off a lake, and could have been easily out-run.)

Is it just old-fashioned "get-there-itis," an internal pressure that
they
"must" get there for some reason? Or is it that they've "seen this a
thousand times" and always made it through before, so why should today
be
any different?

I know as my flying hours have built, I've grown more comfortable with a
wider range of weather conditions. Is this "experience"? Or
"familiarity"? Or an insidious, gradual and foolish lowering of my
instinctive defenses?

Accidents like hers make you sit up and take notice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
[snip]
I know as my flying hours have built, I've grown more
comfortable with a wider range of weather conditions.
Is this "experience"? Or "familiarity"? Or an insidious,
gradual and foolish lowering of my instinctive defenses?

I've noticed the same thing. The longer I go without getting in real
trouble, the less I am bothered by gnarly weather, particularly now that
I've got a way to keep a distant eye on it in flight.

We often read posts from pilots who think GA fatal accident statistics don't
apply to them because they would *never* do some of the "stupid" things
described in the NTSB reports. I bet if we had known a lot of those
"stupid" pilots, we'd realize that most were no dumber than the rest of us.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM