knowledge test results coming back to haunt you

Andrew Gideon wrote
No, of course the score on your written exams isn't an absolute measure of
your quality as a pilot. But why not shoot for perfection? Why not be the
best possible, even if it involves actually working hard?

Because you could be working hard on something that actually matters.

FAA written tests contain a huge amount of worthless drivel. Why
bother studying that, when you could be learning about weather, the
systems in your airplane, or something else that could actually help
you.

I used to go with your approach. I would get the book, study hard,
and never score less than 95. On my last written (the ATP) I
realized, about halfway through, that I was wasting time. After I
took this test, I would never care about rest periods for supplemental
carriers, how many landings you could substitute for hours before you
could use published mins, or how many hours your dispatch was good for
if you were a flag carrier ever again. And then I realized how much
useless FAA trivia I was carrying in my head from all the other tests
I took, and how much more of it I had forgotten. And so I walked in,
took the test, and scored my lowest ever. But I passed.

If FAA written tests were actually well-designed and not full of trick
questions and useless trivia, I would feel differently. And if my
plane had turbines, it would burn kerosene. When it comes to
preparing for your oral and flight test, do your best. Learn to fly
to the privileges of the certificate, not just to pass a test. Learn
what you need to fly, not to convince a DE to give you a ticket. But
when it comes to the written, do the minimum and save your effort for
where it matters. Nobody cares about your score on the written.

The FAA does keep those results, and they will release those numbers
if you authorize it. If the people doing the hiring really wanted to
know how you did, they would have you sign a release form and get them
from the FAA. But they never do.

Michael

I doubt any employer will be able to obtain the scores from teh FAA,
assuming that the FAA even keeps those things.

What I would be worried about is the 72% score. True, it is a passing
score, but just barely. While not all questions on the written exam are
critical to safe flying, some of them are. You may be able to score 90%
now, but sometime between now and then you were probably flying with a
weaker than average knowledge, and that could be a cause for concern.





chris priest wrote in
:

This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on
pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

My dad who is at about the same place as me in training (he is only
doing it as recreation) keeps drilling to me that it is EXTREMELY
important to do as best as I can on these tests, because he is sure
that
if I get a bad grade, then it will hurt me in the long run when it
comes
time to get a job. Of course, when he took his instrument test two
weeks
or so ago, he got a 100%. But then again he probably spent 15 hours a
week for 4 or 5 months studying (mildly exagerated), which I am just
not
willing to do as I actually have a life. I personally haven't taken
the
instrument test yet, but i got a 72 on my PAR, and when my dad found
out
about my score, he (typically) threw a fit.

I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't. Even though I got a barely passing grade on my
private knowledge test, that doesn't;t necessarily mean I only know
72%
there needs to know about being a private pilot. If I was to retake
the
test now, I guarantee I'd get at least a 90. That is to say I learned
a
lot during my training, as I *did* afterall pass my checkride.

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

I doubt any employer will be able to obtain the scores from the FAA,

The Privacy Act of 1974 prevents FAA or any gov't agency from release
of this kind of info for the purpose here. Although, an employer can
ask you to sign a release authorizing the FAA to disclose it, or
simpler yet, ask you to get it from FAA yourself.

F--

At my airline interview (and in some of the application packages I
submitted) most asked for a signature to release these records, as well as
your criminal history, driving history, etc.....
But you do have a point.



"TaxSrv" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

I doubt any employer will be able to obtain the scores from the FAA,

The Privacy Act of 1974 prevents FAA or any gov't agency from release
of this kind of info for the purpose here. Although, an employer can
ask you to sign a release authorizing the FAA to disclose it, or
simpler yet, ask you to get it from FAA yourself.

F--

I couldnt agree more. In my career as an instructor, I have seen a lot of
students who didnt want to study the theory and pass the written exam with
flying colors. When you add that the fact that the questions are published
already, there are few excuses for doing poorly. I hear a lot of
rationalization about how the material really doesnt apply to flying. I
dont agree.

I dont know if you fit into this category, so I am speaking based on
experience. But I've heard a lot of students tell me "I fly much better in
the air than on paper". Thats a load of BS. Typically your approach toward
things on the ground is the same as that in the air. So students have to
ask themselves if they cant bother with the ground work, do they really
bother with the *tough* airwork?

As for your situation, ask yourself honestly if maybe your dad has a point?
To him, its not about the exam grade. Its about your approach to it. If he
thought you put your all into it, he'd buy you a beer after the test no
matter what the grade.

Be that as it may, no I dont think any company really cares about the exam
scores except for the FE written or ATP written (if you dont have the rating
yet). They've never asked nor cared in any of the jobs I've had. However,
just in case, make all of your future exam grades 100% and you will have no
problems. It shows that you have learned your lesson and buckled down.

best regards-



"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
. 158...
I doubt any employer will be able to obtain the scores from teh FAA,
assuming that the FAA even keeps those things.

What I would be worried about is the 72% score. True, it is a passing
score, but just barely. While not all questions on the written exam are
critical to safe flying, some of them are. You may be able to score 90%
now, but sometime between now and then you were probably flying with a
weaker than average knowledge, and that could be a cause for concern.





chris priest wrote in
:

This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on
pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

My dad who is at about the same place as me in training (he is only
doing it as recreation) keeps drilling to me that it is EXTREMELY
important to do as best as I can on these tests, because he is sure
that
if I get a bad grade, then it will hurt me in the long run when it
comes
time to get a job. Of course, when he took his instrument test two
weeks
or so ago, he got a 100%. But then again he probably spent 15 hours a
week for 4 or 5 months studying (mildly exagerated), which I am just
not
willing to do as I actually have a life. I personally haven't taken
the
instrument test yet, but i got a 72 on my PAR, and when my dad found
out
about my score, he (typically) threw a fit.

I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't. Even though I got a barely passing grade on my
private knowledge test, that doesn't;t necessarily mean I only know
72%
there needs to know about being a private pilot. If I was to retake
the
test now, I guarantee I'd get at least a 90. That is to say I learned
a
lot during my training, as I *did* afterall pass my checkride.

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?

I once invested $10 in getting a copy of my complete airman certification
record, from my first medical/student pilot certificate to my last CFI
renewal. It included my written test scores.

Having said that, I do not believe that a prospective employer or any third
party could have access to your pilot record by simply asking for it (and
paying the $10). I don't think it is worth worrying about.

Bob Gardner

"chris priest" wrote in
message ...
This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

My dad who is at about the same place as me in training (he is only
doing it as recreation) keeps drilling to me that it is EXTREMELY
important to do as best as I can on these tests, because he is sure that
if I get a bad grade, then it will hurt me in the long run when it comes
time to get a job. Of course, when he took his instrument test two weeks
or so ago, he got a 100%. But then again he probably spent 15 hours a
week for 4 or 5 months studying (mildly exagerated), which I am just not
willing to do as I actually have a life. I personally haven't taken the
instrument test yet, but i got a 72 on my PAR, and when my dad found out
about my score, he (typically) threw a fit.

I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't. Even though I got a barely passing grade on my
private knowledge test, that doesn't;t necessarily mean I only know 72%
there needs to know about being a private pilot. If I was to retake the
test now, I guarantee I'd get at least a 90. That is to say I learned a
lot during my training, as I *did* afterall pass my checkride.

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?

Well, nobody except you will know, unless you tell them. On the other
hand - how in heck did you get such a low grade? This is a test
where all the answers to all the possible questions are published.
I got above 95 on my instrument written and I sure as heck wasn't
that good. It's just that the badly worded questions and/or poorly
worded answers were noted and remembered. Thank goodness
they are published now. Not so many years ago, none of the questions
were published. You had to read the book. The book was smaller.

Do better the next time. You will be competing against people who
really want to fly and will put in the effort to be the best. Small demand,
huge supply of pilots. It has always been so. It will never be otherwise.


I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't. Even though I got a barely passing grade on my
private knowledge test, that doesn't;t necessarily mean I only know 72%
there needs to know about being a private pilot. If I was to retake the
test now, I guarantee I'd get at least a 90. That is to say I learned a
lot during my training, as I *did* afterall pass my checkride.

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?

"chris priest" wrote in message This has been on my mind for a long time
now. I am planning on pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

Want to bet your oral examination will be significantly longer than your
dad's?
More chances to fail.

The FAA keeps a record of your knowledge test results for each test in your
permanent FAA file in OKC. When you apply to an airline (in the US), you
sign a consent form authorizing the prospective employer to have a copy of
your complete file (Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996). Most operators
only request a certificate verification and a check for enforcement actions
in your file, but a few operators request the full file.

If the operator doesn't request the full file, you will still likely be
asked about your scores. The competition for these jobs is fierce. A score
that barely passes will signal to the interview board that you aren't
serious about your profession or that you are not trainable. All other
things being equal, the candidate with perfect scores will get the job.

Your first airline interview will require that you bring a copy of your
Airline Transport Pilot knowledge test results if you do not already have
the rating. Presenting a score of 72 to the interview board will not get you
into the simulator for part 2. It will get you on the next flight home, and
a rejection letter will soon follow.

If you are serious about rising to the top of the profession, don't be a
slacker. Forget about 'having a life'. Listen to your father. There will be
plenty of life left to live after the hard work is done.

D.

"chris priest" wrote in
message ...
This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on pursuing a
career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate, regional,
the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it comes down to
hiring, will the results of my private, instrument, commercial etc.
knowledge tests come in as a factor?


No. The interview will tell them all they need to know about your attitude
towards work, study, etc. If you think that the quality of the work you do
does not matter, they will find out. If you are the type to pay attention to
details and who prepares well, they will find that out, too.

Okay, you sloughed off on the test and barely passed. Your dad is right to
be ticked. It displays an attitude that you think it is not important. You
may think that you would do better on it now, but that is only speculation
on your part. My advice is to be the kind of person that an employer would
find valuable, and stop trying to find excuses for poor performance in the
past.

I spent a long time contemplating your post.
I even started a very detailed response, and then deleted it, because it
seemed to me that an honest and impartial response was not what you were
truly seeking - so I'll just say this.
I truly believe that the rewards you get out of this will roughly equal
the effort that you put in. Just don't tell the interviewer that you
will not put in xyz because you actually have a life - because, believe
it or not, so does everyone else!
Most employers, particularly in your field seek excellence, but you may
get lucky and find one that is satisfied with mediocrity.
Otherwise - do you have a second career choice?


Tony
P.S. I'm not trying to **** you off - I'm trying to wake you up!

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE



In article ,
chris priest wrote:

This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

My dad who is at about the same place as me in training (he is only
doing it as recreation) keeps drilling to me that it is EXTREMELY
important to do as best as I can on these tests, because he is sure that
if I get a bad grade, then it will hurt me in the long run when it comes
time to get a job. Of course, when he took his instrument test two weeks
or so ago, he got a 100%. But then again he probably spent 15 hours a
week for 4 or 5 months studying (mildly exagerated), which I am just not
willing to do as I actually have a life. I personally haven't taken the
instrument test yet, but i got a 72 on my PAR, and when my dad found out
about my score, he (typically) threw a fit.

I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't. Even though I got a barely passing grade on my
private knowledge test, that doesn't;t necessarily mean I only know 72%
there needs to know about being a private pilot. If I was to retake the
test now, I guarantee I'd get at least a 90. That is to say I learned a
lot during my training, as I *did* afterall pass my checkride.

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?