Another Cirrus 'chute deployment

"Cockpit Colin" wrote in message
...
Anyone know what the service ceiling of the aircraft is?



A spec sheet on Avweb in 2002 says 17K, so he was pushing the limit.

The Cirrus site seems to hide such info very well.

I know we are all engaged in guesswork at this point, but if an engine
fails
at 16,000 feet I would expect that there is a nice long glide availble
(regardless of turbulence) that would likely yield a pretty good landing
spot. I know, I wasn't there - I'm not judging, just wondering...

Having just flown in that part of the world, I can safely say that an engine
failure at 16K *might* only give you a couple of thousand feet to think
about finding a landing spot, depending on the terrain. A long glide might
not be in the cards.

Worse, there were plenty of spots in the mountains where an engine failure
would have been non-survivable.

Unless, of course, you had a ballistic 'chute to deploy, like this guy did.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...or/9723097.htm

I'm a bit concerned that I never heard about another recent deployment...

"Still, the parachute system has not proven a cure-all, as evidenced by the
Sept. 10 crash of a Cirrus SR22 in Park Falls, Wis. That crash claimed the life
of Gerald Miller, 60, of Seboygan, Wis."

It doesn't make clear whether the old fellow in Sheboygan deployed...

The FAA report gives the position of his last radio contact as 2 miles east
of Manteca. This is right in the middle of the California Central Valley -
flat farm land, about 50' MSL that stretches uninterrupted north to south
for more than 350 miles. It is probably the longest emergency landing strip
west of the Rockies. There is no shortage of real airports either.

I would assume that either the spin was not recoverable, or the pilot simply
followed the instructions to use the BSR in the event of a spin. The real
question is how you could get into a spin from turbulence in cruise flight
in the first place. However, there were some mean thunderstorms in the area
at the time (2" of rain fell in Sacramento earlier in the day and the
weather was heading SW towards the accident area). Basically it was a mean
cold front that swept through the area about the time of the accident- and
it certainly wasn't forecast to be as wild as it turned out (wild by CA
standards that is). I would think he more than likely got caught up in some
of that convective activity.

I just got thinking why would you be at 16,000' over the CA Central Valley ?
I like to fly high, normally 8,500' is my min altitude while, I'm flying XC
around the state, but the oxygen requirements keep me below 12,500'. Even if
I had oxygen on board - I would probably not use it until I had to get to
altitude. For example, If you fly IFR than many of the MEA's over the
mountains are going to force your to have oxygen.

But say I was flying VFR, and I saw a line of CB ahead of me, I might be
tempted to push it and try to climb over them. Maybe, there is already a
layer underneath me so I can't get down to go underneath. Maybe, I just
don't want to be under a big mean CB build-up when it looks like it tops out
only a few thousand feet higher. Hopefully I have ox or maybe I figure I'll
be "over the hump" before I'll really need it. Either way I start climbing.
16,000' and the plane really doesn't want to go any higher, I've maxed out
the power, I'm pitched for best climb maybe a bit more and I'm still looking
like I'll enter the top of the cloud. I starting to get worried, maybe I'm
not IFR rated and anyway that is a mean CB cloud under me. I really don't
want to be inside it. Without realizing it, I'm dangerously close to a
stall. Maybe, I decide I've had enough and decide to do a 180, but as I
turn, the plane stalls. I wasn't expecting it and before I know it I'm into
the cloud getting kicked all over the place. Right about then I'd be really
glad if I had a parachute.

Maybe the guy was laid off and/or unable to pay off the aircraft and did
this for the insurance???? or maybe it was a real emergency no one knows
except for the person flying the airplane. I'd seriously be questioning his
judgment from the news article!


"Brenor Brophy" wrote in message
.. .
The FAA report gives the position of his last radio contact as 2 miles
east
of Manteca. This is right in the middle of the California Central Valley -
flat farm land, about 50' MSL that stretches uninterrupted north to south
for more than 350 miles. It is probably the longest emergency landing
strip
west of the Rockies. There is no shortage of real airports either.

I would assume that either the spin was not recoverable, or the pilot
simply
followed the instructions to use the BSR in the event of a spin. The real
question is how you could get into a spin from turbulence in cruise flight
in the first place. However, there were some mean thunderstorms in the
area
at the time (2" of rain fell in Sacramento earlier in the day and the
weather was heading SW towards the accident area). Basically it was a mean
cold front that swept through the area about the time of the accident- and
it certainly wasn't forecast to be as wild as it turned out (wild by CA
standards that is). I would think he more than likely got caught up in
some
of that convective activity.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
"Pilot William Graham, 65, told authorities that his airplane, a Cirrus
SR22, stalled at 16,000 feet, ..."

I'd rather say that it was the pilot who stalled the plane.

"... then encountered turbulent weather at 13,000 to 15,000 feet that
sent it into a spin, according to the Stockton Record newspaper. Graham
deployed an emergency parachute ..."

A spin at 15'000 ft is a non-event and can easily be recovered without a
chute.

None of the Cirrus models will recover from a spin. The only spin recovery
method in the manual is to deploy the parachute.

"Michael 182" wrote in message
newsw24d.81563$MQ5.65618@attbi_s52...
Glad the chute worked, but what would cause an airplane to stall at 16,000
feet, then encounter turbulence that would send it into a spin at 15,000
feet? At that height it would seem a stall should be pretty simple to
recover from, although, once again, I can't imagine what would make the
plane stall in the first place during cruise.


The airplane was near the service ceiling and may already have been at a
high angle of attack. Flying slowly because of the turbulence may have
increased the angle of attack still further. If the turbulence is severe the
airplane could exceed the critical angle of attack. Picture the airplane in
a straight and level attitude but descending straight down and you get the
idea -- very high angle of attack. This would especially be true if the
airplane was in a rapid descent because of the turbulence and the pilot was
trying to maintain altitude or even a straight and level attitude. If the
airplane is uncoordinated then the stall could turn into a spin. Picture
again the airplane moving straight down in a level attitude, but now one
wing is moving backward relative to the other. That wing will have a higher
angle of attack than the other; it will stall without warning and the
airplane will immediately begin to roll into a spin, possibly even inverted.
Of course, the turbulence would have to be pretty bad to cause this, but in
the Central Valley in the vicinity of thunderstorms, I can believe it. The
stall resistant Cirrus might hold out longer than other airplanes, but it is
not invulnerable.

Cirrus deliberately limited rudder and elevator travel to prevent stalls and
spins. This has the effect, however, of making it more difficult or even
impossible to recover once a spin develops. There is not enough rudder
authority to recover. The Cirrus has never demonstrated a spin recovery,
though it has been tried. The only way the airplane could receive
certification was to require deployment of the parachute in the event of a
spin.

There seems to be a pattern of Cirrus aircraft entering stalls and spins in
turbulence at high altitudes. It may be a training problem -- pilots taking
Cirrus airplanes into conditions that they would not try in other airplanes.
For now, I think that if you take a Cirrus into turbulence at high altitude
there is a certain risk that the airplane will be lost. That risk may be
more or less than other types, but it is there.

C J Campbell wrote:

impossible to recover once a spin develops. There is not enough rudder
authority to recover. The Cirrus has never demonstrated a spin recovery,
though it has been tried. The only way the airplane could receive
certification was to require deployment of the parachute in the event of a
spin.

I didn't know this. Personally, I don't like the idea at all wouldn't
buy a plane that can't be recovered by the standard procedure. But then,
I'm maybe just old fashioned.

Stefan

C J Campbell wrote:
There is not enough rudder
authority to recover. The Cirrus has never demonstrated a spin recovery,
though it has been tried.

I don't believe either of these statements are correct - if you have
references agreeing with you, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

In fact, the SR22 POH says: "If time and altitude permit, the following
procedures may be used to determine whether the aircraft is in a recoverable
spiral/incipient spin or is unrecoverable and, therefore, has departed
controlled flight." It then goes on to give the spin recovery checklist:

1. Power Lever .................IDLE
2. Control Yoke ............... Neutral
3. Rudder ......................... Briskly Apply Opposite Yaw/Spin
Direction

Hilton