Aviation fuel - price of crude...

"John T" wrote in message
news:1097205380.tfcDDVgHhsNXJeJEYLKL8g@bubbanews.. .
"Bob Fry" wrote in message


Sure. While we're at it, can we *puhleeeze* have a rational energy
policy that includes conservation, like raising CAFE standards?

I'm all for a rational energy policy, but how does imposing MPG standards
on manufacturers achieve those goals? Why not let the market decide? As
shown by the waiting list for the latest generation of hybrid cars, there
is pent up demand for high mileage cars and the major manufacturers are
responding to that demand.

As a rule, the less government intervention, the better.

How
about encouraging solar energy panels for homes, especially in the
Southwest (Calif-Nevada-Ariz-NM-Texas-Col) via tax incentives?

How about just a flat Federal income tax? I local jurisdictions want to
provide tax breaks, more power to them.

How
about dropping bogus political distractions like hydrogen for cars,
which is simply another *form* of energy, *not* new energy?

Um...what "new energy", for example?

FWIW, I like the excitement about hydrogen. It may turn out to be
completely infeasible, but at least it's getting people to think beyond
the status quo.

This country developed the atom bomb and sent men to the moon when it
wanted to...if we elect politicians with real honesty and courage, we
can *easily* do it again and become energy independent of the
middle-east.

Agreed.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

It does not really matte guys, with the Kyoto Protocol going into effect
soon, the world with have to dramatically cut down on production of harmful
gases. Don't worry about the cost of gas it will be a null point when it is
not needed to drive the us population to work everyday.

You also have to think of the point of technology and the way the world
works. Look at the Internal combustion engine and the incredible
in-efficient way it burns fuel. We must ask ourselves why have we not come
up with better technologies? Mr. Big oil doesn't like it.


"John T" wrote in message
news:1097205380.tfcDDVgHhsNXJeJEYLKL8g@bubbanews.. .
"Bob Fry" wrote in message


Sure. While we're at it, can we *puhleeeze* have a rational energy
policy that includes conservation, like raising CAFE standards?

I'm all for a rational energy policy, but how does imposing MPG standards
on manufacturers achieve those goals? Why not let the market decide? As
shown by the waiting list for the latest generation of hybrid cars, there
is pent up demand for high mileage cars and the major manufacturers are
responding to that demand.

As a rule, the less government intervention, the better.

How
about encouraging solar energy panels for homes, especially in the
Southwest (Calif-Nevada-Ariz-NM-Texas-Col) via tax incentives?

How about just a flat Federal income tax? I local jurisdictions want to
provide tax breaks, more power to them.

How
about dropping bogus political distractions like hydrogen for cars,
which is simply another *form* of energy, *not* new energy?

Um...what "new energy", for example?

FWIW, I like the excitement about hydrogen. It may turn out to be
completely infeasible, but at least it's getting people to think beyond
the status quo.

This country developed the atom bomb and sent men to the moon when it
wanted to...if we elect politicians with real honesty and courage, we
can *easily* do it again and become energy independent of the
middle-east.

Agreed.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

John T wrote:
"Bob Fry" wrote in message

[snip]

This country developed the atom bomb and sent men to the moon when it
wanted to...if we elect politicians with real honesty and courage, we
can *easily* do it again and become energy independent of the
middle-east.

Agreed.

personally, I wish I could vote for Jed Bartlett....

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...

This country developed the atom bomb and sent men to the moon when it
wanted to...if we elect politicians with real honesty and courage, we
can *easily* do it again and become energy independent of the
middle-east.

That is so bogus. "If we can send men to the moon, then why can't..." First
of all, we barely managed to send men to the moon. We haven't done it in
thirty years and can't do it now.

Secondly, sending men to the moon is one technology and is possible.
Perpetual motion is not possible, and a lot of energy-saving pipedreams
amount to a wish for perpetual motion.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...

This country developed the atom bomb and sent men to the moon when it
wanted to...if we elect politicians with real honesty and courage, we
can *easily* do it again and become energy independent of the
middle-east.

That is so bogus. "If we can send men to the moon, then why can't..." First
of all, we barely managed to send men to the moon. We haven't done it in
thirty years and can't do it now.

Secondly, sending men to the moon is one technology and is possible.
Perpetual motion is not possible, and a lot of energy-saving pipedreams
amount to a wish for perpetual motion.

Yeah, lets pump it all out today leaving nothing for the future. Further
petroleum development is not really an answer, supply is going to contract
anyway. Even if there were no restrictions to drilling in the US, the price
wouldn't be affected very much. Far more could be saved through
conservation than could be produced through increased production and the
saving through conservation can be continued forever. Four years ago, GWB
decided not to increase the scheduled CAFE increase for automobiles. So
now, four years later, we have 50,000,000 cars which are getting about 10%
worse fuel economy than they would have if the increase was implemented.
That is just one example. Because we as a nation are so stupid, driving
14mpg cars 50 miles each way to work, the free market is having to impose
disipline by raising the price until some incremental demand is choked off.
I'm as guilty as anyone, flying my own airplane around buring hundreds of
gallons of fuel, but at least I'm not complaining about the outcome. It is
working, sales of SUVs are declining and soon people will start thinking
about how far from work they should live.

Total worldwide oil production will peak this decade and start to decline
regardless of exploration activity. Petroleum is a finite resource with
constantly increasing demand....its pretty simple where that leads...

Mike
MU-2


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Up above $53/barrel now.... Can we *puhleeeze* start developing our own
oil
in Alaska; off the coast of Calif. and the gulf now??? Or should we
just
keep on doing what we are doing ... nothing... in total denial and keep
paying
out the anal cavity to other countries.

In my opinion it is way past time to start developing our own oil here at
home.
Put Americans to work and help our own economy at the same time and reduce
the trade deficit while we are at it. And why not start building a few
more
nuclear power plants to replace some aging fossil fuel plants????

But NO.... if the environmentalists have their way we'll be paying $20
a gallon for gas (GA will no longer exist) and we'll be reminiscing over
some ripped and out of date sectionals by candlelight.

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today today


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yeah, lets pump it all out today leaving nothing for the future. Further
petroleum development is not really an answer, supply is going to contract
anyway. Even if there were no restrictions to drilling in the US, the
price
wouldn't be affected very much. Far more could be saved through
conservation than could be produced through increased production and the
saving through conservation can be continued forever. Four years ago, GWB
decided not to increase the scheduled CAFE increase for automobiles. So
now, four years later, we have 50,000,000 cars which are getting about 10%
worse fuel economy than they would have if the increase was implemented.
That is just one example. Because we as a nation are so stupid, driving
14mpg cars 50 miles each way to work, the free market is having to impose
disipline by raising the price until some incremental demand is choked
off.
I'm as guilty as anyone, flying my own airplane around buring hundreds of
gallons of fuel, but at least I'm not complaining about the outcome. It
is
working, sales of SUVs are declining and soon people will start thinking
about how far from work they should live.

Total worldwide oil production will peak this decade and start to decline
regardless of exploration activity. Petroleum is a finite resource with
constantly increasing demand....its pretty simple where that leads...

Mike
MU-2


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Up above $53/barrel now.... Can we *puhleeeze* start developing our own
oil
in Alaska; off the coast of Calif. and the gulf now??? Or should we
just
keep on doing what we are doing ... nothing... in total denial and keep
paying
out the anal cavity to other countries.

In my opinion it is way past time to start developing our own oil here
at
home.
Put Americans to work and help our own economy at the same time and
reduce
the trade deficit while we are at it. And why not start building a few
more
nuclear power plants to replace some aging fossil fuel plants????

But NO.... if the environmentalists have their way we'll be paying $20
a gallon for gas (GA will no longer exist) and we'll be reminiscing over
some ripped and out of date sectionals by candlelight.

" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

lol but let me clarify and expand now that all of the philosophers are
upset. Dont worry about tomorrow, just look foreward toward tomorrow and
make the proper decisions today so that there is nothing to worry about.

: )

" gdbutler at bellsouth.net wrote in message
.. .
i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.