Why are commuter flights so expensive?

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

Lack Of Usage Of Basic "Econ 101" in GA Aviation will be its downfall,


And this relates how???

Bob Noel wrote in message ...
In article fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52,


Just to give you more fun, to fly roundtrip BOS-CID-BOS thru ORD was
recently $327.90.

That's a big change from two or three years ago. I used to make that
run regularly to service a client out there (Rockwell Collins) and
those were some of the most expensive tickets I ever bought
domestically. Regularly $800 and I paid as much as $1500 on less than
3 days' notice. I hated going there because the area was such an
armpit but god bless the client, they never bitched about ticket
prices.

btw - how long would it take to drive from Chicago to Cedar Rapids?

About 4 hours IIRC. If you can do it without running off the road just
to break up the monotony you're a better man than I.

Best,
-cwk.

In article ,
(C Kingsbury) wrote:

btw - how long would it take to drive from Chicago to Cedar Rapids?

About 4 hours IIRC. If you can do it without running off the road just
to break up the monotony you're a better man than I.

Understood, but just waiting around ORD for the connecting 30 minute
flight is more annoying than driving for 4 hours. Last time I went
to RCGS we could have driven faster (both the ORD to CID and
CID to ORD legs).

--
Bob Noel

In article , Bob Gardner wrote:
Could it be because they have to file tariffs with regulatory agencies,
declaring their prices in advance?

Probably not. SouthWest airlines, at least, offers cheap last minute
fares to get the planes full. I often took advantage of this to take
trips to see friends in SLC which I otherwise would not have made.
Benefited me (cheap trip) and benefited SWA (they otherwise would have
had an empty seat).

Not surprising that the year after Sept 11, SWA were the only major to
make money. They were the only major with a clue, it seemed.

We have the same problem here with British Airways flying into Isle of
Man Ronaldsway. They charge a king's ransom especially for last minute
fares, and wonder why although traffic through the airport has increased
the last year, why their passenger loadings have fallen. I just hope
they don't wind up pulling out because they are the only airline that
does through ticketing from Ronaldsway to the US.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Jay Honeck wrote:

Here's a mystery that I just cannot answer:

To fly to Las Vegas from Chicago costs $99.00. (For example.)

To fly to Cedar Rapids from Chicago costs $300.


snip


There must be something else in play here -- anyone know?

The only way to understand airline ticket pricing is to think about it in
terms of how much a person needing to go to destination X will pay vs. how
many competing airlines go there.

--
Frank....H

In article , Bob Gardner wrote:

Could it be because they have to file tariffs with regulatory agencies,
declaring their prices in advance?

I thought that was what deregulation was about--removing that requirement.
If they really have to do that, then Northwurst must have a department with
thousands of people filing these constantly, since I see ticket prices for the
same leg change several times in an hour.

Of course, I have no idea what the requirements really are--I'm just
reporting my experience as a consumer (package, that is).

One possibility is that people on shorter hops might be better about actually
taking advantage of last-minute fares--maybe no one would buy and advance
ticket then. It sure does seem like a no-brainer, though.

Mike Beede

Are you referring to the Freddie Laker and People Express models?
The problem is having sufficient capacity to accommodate those you still
do not have seats for after you have filled the first airplane.
That was People Express' downfall. They didn't have the ability to have
the right equipment at the right airport to meet the demand.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Here's a mystery that I just cannot answer:
To fly to Las Vegas from Chicago costs $99.00. (For example.)
To fly to Cedar Rapids from Chicago costs $300.
Naturally, at that price practically no one flies on that plane into Cedar
Rapids.
Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say, 30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full? This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.
Their actions seem to defy logic. In the lodging industry, you're going to
find rooms are discounted much more aggressively after 10 PM than they are
at 3 PM, simply because no innkeeper wants to sit empty, and the odds of
being able to charge full-rate at that time of day are slim. Yet no airline
seems to do it this way, at least on the short hops.
If it were MY airline, I'd sure as hell rather make a hundred bucks than
nothing!
There must be something else in play here -- anyone know?

Clearly airline prices - commuter or otherwise - are the product of a
black art, probably involving the sacrifice of small critters to arrive
at a price. A couple of years ago I needed to fly from Chicago to
Jackson Hole (ORD - JAC). I had to go one-way - I was driving back with
an old friend. One way air fare was about $800. Round trip was $500!
How's that for logical?

JJF

Jay Honeck wrote:
Here's a mystery that I just cannot answer:

To fly to Las Vegas from Chicago costs $99.00. (For example.)

To fly to Cedar Rapids from Chicago costs $300.

Naturally, at that price practically no one flies on that plane into Cedar
Rapids.

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say, 30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full? This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Their actions seem to defy logic. In the lodging industry, you're going to
find rooms are discounted much more aggressively after 10 PM than they are
at 3 PM, simply because no innkeeper wants to sit empty, and the odds of
being able to charge full-rate at that time of day are slim. Yet no airline
seems to do it this way, at least on the short hops.

If it were MY airline, I'd sure as hell rather make a hundred bucks than
nothing!

There must be something else in play here -- anyone know?

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(C Kingsbury) wrote:

btw - how long would it take to drive from Chicago to Cedar Rapids?

About 4 hours IIRC. If you can do it without running off the road just
to break up the monotony you're a better man than I.

Understood, but just waiting around ORD for the connecting 30 minute
flight is more annoying than driving for 4 hours. Last time I went
to RCGS we could have driven faster (both the ORD to CID and
CID to ORD legs).

I was a Delta/NWA man so I dodged the O'Hare bullet more often than not. But
between summer thunder and winter snow I got stuck more often there than any
other single place I remember. One time I was grateful though- I was
supposed to be flying there on Superbowl Sunday three years back, and a big
storm was working its way East shutting down everything in its path. So I
got to watch the Pats win at a friend's place in Somerville instead of
getting updates over the PA at FL350.

I truly despise O'Hare. Cincinnati and Atlanta are pretty grim too but not
nearly as awful. And NWA's Detroit hub is possibly my favorite, though the
terminal it replaced was truly abysmal.

-cwk.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six months from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2) they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing it.

-cwk.