Logging Total Time?

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
rules are around logging total time

The FAA has not defined "Total Time", so there are no rules about it.

True, but 61.1b12 does define "pilot time" as the total of various types of
time. And the aeronautical experience sections of part 61 refer to "total
time as a pilot", which presumably is synonymous with "pilot time".

--Gary

There are no regs for logging total time, only logging PIC.

Helen

Ther are no rules for logging Total time, only PIC and SIC.

Helen

i suppose the real issue would be how you intend to use that tabulation
of "total hours".

near as i can tell, it wouldn't qualify for anything as far as ratings
or insurance and trying to use it as such could be really bad.
dan

On 19 Dec 2004 06:53:26 -0800, "houstondan"
wrote:

i suppose the real issue would be how you intend to use that tabulation
of "total hours".

near as i can tell, it wouldn't qualify for anything as far as ratings
or insurance and trying to use it as such could be really bad.
dan


The intent was for adherance to insurance requirements for employment,
and while it seems there isn't a cut and dry answer, your "could be
real bad" comment about sums up how to proceed.

Thanks.
z

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 03:11:03 GMT, zatatime wrote:

Does anyone know what the rules are around logging total time?

My specific example is a person who flew literally hundreds of hours
before getting a license (no solo privs either). He performed all the
duties of the flight including take-off, cross country navigation,
landing, communications, maneuvers, etc... He was always accompanied
by someone who was acting as pilot in command, but whom never touched
the stick. Is it legal for him to log total time for these flights?
Is there a way to log total time without logging either PIC, SIC, or
Dual Received/Given?

Unless the PIC was a CFI and these are logged as training flights -
they cannot be logged.

-Nathan

zatatime wrote:

My specific example is a person who flew literally hundreds of hours
before getting a license (no solo privs either). He performed all the
duties of the flight including take-off, cross country navigation,
landing, communications, maneuvers, etc... He was always accompanied
by someone who was acting as pilot in command, but whom never touched
the stick. Is it legal for him to log total time for these flights?

My logbook has several columns for time. He could log the time under the
"aircraft category" column, under "class" (if applicable), under "conditions of
flight" (if applicable), under "cross country" (if applicable), and under "total
duration of flight." He cannot log it under "pilot in command", since he was not
rated. He cannot log it as "dual received" unless the other person in the plane
was a CFI.

That what he *can* do. IMO, it's going to make his logbook look really weird,
which invites hostile scrutiny by the FAA if they ever get a look at it. It
probably would also confuse insurance companies if he ever tries to insure an
aircraft an aircraft. That's two big disadvantages right there. What does
logging the time buy him? Nothing that I can see. None of this time counts in
furtherance of any certificates.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:51:26 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

What does
logging the time buy him? Nothing that I can see. None of this time counts in
furtherance of any certificates.


He doesn't "need" anymore certificates right now. What it would buy
him is meeting a total time requirement for a job, and meeting
insurance requirements for insurance on planes his family own part or
all of. Right now he's got about 750-800 hours with 500 in
multi-engine airplanes. Most jobs want 1000 total, as do his
insurance companies. (I saw the other thread on getting insurance...I
don't want to go there for right now, and am only relating what he and
his father have told me about their insurance woes.) So when he flies
the Aztec, Stomp, or Great Lakes he isn't insured. He did finally get
put on the policy for the SNJ.

His father has always kept a log book and noted when the son was with
him doing the flying. Turns out the kid had about 400 hours before he
ever turned 16 (and that doesn't include time he was in the airplane
with someone else doing the flying)! Being able to capture some of
that time would put him over the 1000 hour mark, and send him on his
career path more quickly.

When I made the post, I was thinking along the same lines to what you
and Gregg have posted. What I'm not sure about are the possible
repercussions if something were to happen.

z

zatatime wrote:

When I made the post, I was thinking along the same lines to what you
and Gregg have posted. What I'm not sure about are the possible
repercussions if something were to happen.

Well, I've attended some discussions of this sort of thing at FAA seminars.
Inspector Ryan of the Allentown FAA made the statement at one that "It's your
logbook; you can put anything in it you want to." He continued on to state that
the FAA only cares if you try to use a false entry to obtain certification. That
was about 8 years ago, but nothing's changed AFAIK.

The regulations describe what you can and cannot log as PIC and dual
instruction. There doesn't appear to be any regulation that states that a
non-rated pilot can't log the time in other categories. If there is no
prohibition against doing something, it is, by definition, legal to do it.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

I don't think he can log PIC time. That is also true of student pilots
receiving dual. They don't get PIC time unless they are alone in the
aircraft except on their checkride. At least that's what it was when I was
getting my private. But my instrument rating was all PIC because I was
rated in the airplane and the sole manipulator of the controls.

Interestingly, while getting twin-time instruction, it is also not PIC time
until the rating even though I have private SEL rating.


"zatatime" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what the rules are around logging total time?

My specific example is a person who flew literally hundreds of hours
before getting a license (no solo privs either). He performed all the
duties of the flight including take-off, cross country navigation,
landing, communications, maneuvers, etc... He was always accompanied
by someone who was acting as pilot in command, but whom never touched
the stick. Is it legal for him to log total time for these flights?
Is there a way to log total time without logging either PIC, SIC, or
Dual Received/Given?

Thanks for any responses to this.

z