IFR class E

Read my other post. You might want to spend some time talking to Bill
Hutt or someone else who has flown a lot in the area about the utility of
flying IMC in your current airplane. Basically it isn't enough airplane
for IMC flying in that area. Even a heavy twin like a 421 is marginal.

Mike
MU-2


Bummer.
On the other hand, this weather is really uncharacteristic.
Last winter, I flew all winter long with very few days that weren't VFR.
On the whole, I would say 90% of the days here are VFR.

Sorry to ask IFR-illiterate questions, but here's more.
A more realistic mission would be flying from Minden to the Bay Area.
Like I said, it's usually VFR in Minden, but there is often fog in the Bay
Area (Santa Rosa, STS).
I don't have IFR plates, but I know STS is pretty flat, and is at sea level
(100').
Not sure about icing conditions, but it's definitely warmer in the winter
than here in Minden.
Does this sound like something that I could handle in my Super III, or do I
need the heavy metal?

Thanks

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

That is a totally different and much more realistic situation. When the
weather is IMC at Minden, even if the ceiling is 3000AGL, it is unflyable in
a piston single without deice and turbocharging. In the Bay Area, on the
other hand, there is a lot of flyable IMC similiar to SoCal. You get
frequent marine layers only a few hundred feed thick. I didn't say so
earlier but I think that getting the rating is a good idea for most pilots.
It has some utility and it will make you a better pilot in many areas. MEV
is, like you say, almost always VFR. The problem is that to go anywhere you
have to cross mountains or fly very turbulent valleys. You mentioned STS,
before you depart from there in IMC you need to really understand the
departure procedure and what your GPS is going to do at each step. Its
complicated if you don't know when it is going to go stop automatic waypoint
sequencing. Don't ask how I know!

Basically if you can get past Placerville you will be able to fly almost
anywhere in the state with your airplane. The limitations are all over high
terrain because you have to fly high to clear terrain and there is almost
always icing at those altitudes along with lots of turbulence.

BTW you should go to Soar Minden and buy the book "Exploring the Monster".
It is a great book and you will learn a lot about your local weather. It is
my favorite aviation book.

Mike
MU-2





"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...

Read my other post. You might want to spend some time talking to Bill
Hutt or someone else who has flown a lot in the area about the utility of
flying IMC in your current airplane. Basically it isn't enough airplane
for IMC flying in that area. Even a heavy twin like a 421 is marginal.

Mike
MU-2


Bummer.
On the other hand, this weather is really uncharacteristic.
Last winter, I flew all winter long with very few days that weren't VFR.
On the whole, I would say 90% of the days here are VFR.

Sorry to ask IFR-illiterate questions, but here's more.
A more realistic mission would be flying from Minden to the Bay Area.
Like I said, it's usually VFR in Minden, but there is often fog in the Bay
Area (Santa Rosa, STS).
I don't have IFR plates, but I know STS is pretty flat, and is at sea
level (100').
Not sure about icing conditions, but it's definitely warmer in the winter
than here in Minden.
Does this sound like something that I could handle in my Super III, or do
I need the heavy metal?

Thanks

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

Anyway, I think you've answered my questions..now I have one more.
Since the only approach in Minden is GPS, does it make sense to get an
IFR-certified GPS?
Anyone have any preferences.
I don't want to put a $10K upgrade in ;-)

Thanks,

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

If you want to fly IFR into Minden, you'll need a panel mounted IFR
certified GPS, other wise plan the ILS into Reno and drive... but yes.. IFR
in the SAC valley on top of the FOG layer can be fun... but more than once I
had to divert a T-37 from Mather to Placerville (on top of the fog) and wait
it out.. fog and vis were below IFR minimums at Mather.

BT

I assume by "fog layer at 300" you mean fog from the ground topping out at
300. Otherwise you would say an "overcast layer at 300."

Either way, you can depart from a Class E (or Class G) untowered airport IFR
with what is called a void time clearance. You call up the approach
facility, over the phone or radio in some cases, and either directly or
relayed through an FSS, and are cleared to take off IFR in a short slot time
that ends at the "void time." In the old days we used to call from a pay
phone at the FBO, then hurry to take off before the clearance expired. Now
we call from the end of the runway on the cell phone when ready. Works like
a champ, and once you see it done it is not as hard as it sounds.

Separation is provided all the way to the ground if it is a true Class E
airport (somewhat rare.) At a Class G airport, separation is not provided
until you enter Class E. While your void time clearance is in effect, ATC
will not allow any IFR traffic into "your" airport. The big sky theory is
your assurance? of separation in Class G.

Landing is pretty much the same way in reverse. You are cleared to execute
the approach before you lose ATC on the radio. It does not matter if they
can see you on radar or not. You call on the phone when you are on the
ground to close your IFR flight plan. Until you do, ATC will hold all
traffic going in or out IFR. Again, it is "your" airport until you cancel
IFR or close your plan.

Hope this answers your questions.


"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...
I'm VFR and have some questions about IFR.
I've been toying with the idea of pursuing an IFR rating, especially due
to the recent (uncharacteristic) fog.
I've only flown real in IMC once.
I was at a class D airport, and the CFI got clearance before takeoff.
He got all kinds of instructions for going up through the soup.

I'm wondering how that works at a class E airport, like the one I'm based
at in Minden, NV.
For example, if there was real IMC (a fog layer at 300 AGL), would you be
allowed to take off?
If so, what would be the procedure?
How would you ensure separation from other traffic?
The closest tower is Reno, but they wouldn't be able to get any radar fix
until you climbed to about 3500' AGL.

Similarly, for landing (assuming a GPS approach is approved, there is no
ILS, etc).
What would you do once Reno lost radar contact?

Thanks,

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

I was based at Minden for several years and still have property there. To
depart MEV IFR you call Reno Approach and get your clearance over the phone.
Be aware of the following limitations for IFR into and out of MEV (and the
rest of the Carson Valley).

The approach minimiums are over 1000'AGL so you certainly can't land with
300' ceilings. The only approaches are GPS.

The approved departure proceedure requires RNP .3nm which means IFR approved
GPS.

There is almost no flyable IMC in airplanes without known ice certification
and radar. There is almost always icing at the MEA and above. The
exception to this is when there are thunderstorms.

The MEAs south of MEV are high. Almost all routes south and west will
require O2.

The east side of the Sierra is a particularly unforgiving place to fly and
there are fatailies in the area virtually every year (or more). The Carson
Valley is better than the Owens Valley to the south but it is not really
suitable for single engine IFR. There is a reason that glider pilots from
all over the world come to Minden! That reason is the powerful weather.

In short, to fly IMC in the area you need GPS, Known Ice, Radar, O2 (and the
ability to climb fast) and should really have a big heavy plane because the
turbulence is so bad.

Mike
MU-2


"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...
I'm VFR and have some questions about IFR.
I've been toying with the idea of pursuing an IFR rating, especially due
to the recent (uncharacteristic) fog.
I've only flown real in IMC once.
I was at a class D airport, and the CFI got clearance before takeoff.
He got all kinds of instructions for going up through the soup.

I'm wondering how that works at a class E airport, like the one I'm based
at in Minden, NV.
For example, if there was real IMC (a fog layer at 300 AGL), would you be
allowed to take off?
If so, what would be the procedure?
How would you ensure separation from other traffic?
The closest tower is Reno, but they wouldn't be able to get any radar fix
until you climbed to about 3500' AGL.

Similarly, for landing (assuming a GPS approach is approved, there is no
ILS, etc).
What would you do once Reno lost radar contact?

Thanks,

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"mindenpilot" wrote in message news:VUEJd.1862

I'm wondering how that works at a class E airport, like the one I'm based
at
in Minden, NV.
For example, if there was real IMC (a fog layer at 300 AGL), would you be
allowed to take off?

Yes. You would file your plan ahead by telephone and depart at a given
time.

The problem would be returning. For example, the airport I fly out of has a
tower, and I can take off with the appropriate clearance, but it doesn't
have an instrument approach so unless the airport is VFR when I return, I
can't land there. That means that to return on IFR, I need to have an
alternate airport(s) with IFR approaches available so if I can't land at my
home base I can safely land nearby (IF the weather meets the published
minimums for that approach.)

-c