Motorgliders and gliders in US contests

Are you aware that an air-restart of the motorglider was out of the question
because of the extreme cold ? It was only for launch convenience. Should
give you additional appreciation for what Ohlmann has accomplished.

Best Regards, Dave


"Ian Forbes" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:13:30 +0000, JJ Sinclair wrote:

I have given several examples where motorgliders have enjoyed a distinct
advantage in cotests. Self-launch so they can motor around until finding
a thermal, airborn-relight while pure sailplaned must land, attemting a
final glide without sufficient altitude. Oh, but JJ's just WHINING
again. JJ Sinclair

Of course motor gliders have many advantages (and some disadvantages) when
compared to pure gliders. A good illustration of this is Klaus Ohlmann's
3000km flight in the Andes. I suspect it would have taken him many more
seasons to reach this goal if all of his knowledge and experience had to
be gained flying a pure glider. This may explain why most new gliders
leaving the factory today, have a motor installed.

Perhaps the way to make to make the sport more 'fair' is to revise the
definitions of the various FAI classes. We already have Standard, 15m and
18m classes which are not separated by major technical features,
performance ability or price. Many gliders can compete competitively in
more than one class (given appropriate weather and/or a different set of
wing tips).


How about using the classes to separate the engine issues? For example:

Standard class, no engine permitted.

15m class. Sustainers permitted, but no self launchers.

18m. Self launchers permitted (encouraged?).

Open class, no limitations (well it is open class).

The guys with sustainers in their standard class ships could disable (or
remove) them, or fly 15m class. Same goes for 15m ships with self
launchers.

Open class pilots have always been faced with the prospect of somebody
with more money arriving at the flight line with a significantly better
performing glider. You may be safe for a couple of years if you fly an
Eta. (Sorry JJ, this won't help make your Nimbus III competitive - but I
am sure that you will continue to enjoy flying it safely!)

None of these changes would "obsolete" an existing competitive glider but
it would definitely help distinguish between the the classes in terms of
cost and performance.


Ian

PS: At the same time maybe vertical winglets and (dump-able) tail ballast
tanks should be banned from standard class. They add to the cost and
complexity with just a small increase in performance - which was never
really the intention of 'standard' class.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:27:50 +0000, Dave Nadler "YO" wrote:

Are you aware that an air-restart of the motorglider was out of the
question because of the extreme cold ? It was only for launch
convenience. Should give you additional appreciation for what Ohlmann
has accomplished.

Best Regards, Dave

Yes I was aware of that. His achievements are impressive.

I gather some of his flights ended with a landing at an away airfield. The
motor allowed him to fly back to base the following day.

I know of a number of other pilots who have used motorgliders while
stretching the envelope of achievement in our sport. The late Klaus
Holighaus flew a series of large distance tasks (typically over 1200km) in
the middle 1990's from Gariep Dam in South Africa. Many of the
unsuccessful tasks covered the declared distance but they were completed
by climbing under motor power to final glide hight at sunset and then
gliding back to base after dark.

Which brings me back to my point. Competitive open class gliders need to
have motors, but gliders flying in the 'standard class' should not be
permitted to have them.


Ian

Subject: Motorgliders and gliders in US contests
From: Eric Greenwell Tnet

When the top pilots start showing up in motorgliders, we'll know for
sure that motorgliders are an advantage overall. PY, are you looking
for a motorglider to fly in the next contest?

Not really as a top pilot would win anyway. Case in point Ron Tabery.

"M B" wrote in message
...
.............. But is it OK for a motorglider pilot
to remove the engine and fly the whole contest without
it installed? Has anyone ever done this, or are there
weight and balance issues, as well as airworthiness
problems? ..............
How much of a hassle is it to remove or reinstall
an engine? Has anyone out there removed an engine
from a motorglider and then flown it?

Most motorgliders are certified with the engine installed. Flying without
the engine would be outside of certification.
15 - 20 years ago when I was writing the rules and there was much discussion
as to whether motorgliders should be allowed to enter FAI class contests,
Weibel told me that he was designing a motorglider (the ASH-26) that would
be certified both with and without the engine. He also said that
removal/installation of the engine would be simple (his words). This was
contemplated to end the problem. Since it has been in production I have not
heard of anyone doing engine removal for contest entry. Also other
manufactures did not seem to follow his idea of dual certification. Contest
rules have been slowly liberalized to permit entry by motorgliders. Now
removal of the engine is no longer needed, but could be done for only one
motorglider that I know of..

Duane

Sure its OK, if the manual permits it. I removed my motor for the
nationals in Uvalde, but I left it in (disabled) for Tonopah. It takes
"a couple hours" according to the factory; more like 5 by my
counting. The turbos are less time/hassle, but less weight so
why bother. As usual, the USA trails the world comps rules
in handling of motors...

Best Regards, Dave

"M B" wrote in message
...
It seems clear that the glider must have the same major
components throughout the contest as during the first
contest flight. But is it OK for a motorglider pilot
to remove the engine and fly the whole contest without
it installed? Has anyone ever done this, or are there
weight and balance issues, as well as airworthiness
problems? If not, it seems like it might be great
to own a motorglider, and if the contest looked like
it would be flown in light conditions, just remove
the engine for that contest. Or just for regular flying
too. How much of a hassle is it to remove or reinstall
an engine? Has anyone out there removed an engine
from a motorglider and then flown it?