Cambridge 302 -or- Borgelt B50 plus data logger

"Paul Remde" wrote:

...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.

Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

Is any nav software able to do either?

Ray

Romeo Delta wrote:

"Paul Remde" wrote:


...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.


Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

As a user of GNII and a 302: if the GNII is connected to the 302, then
yes; if it's connected to "just a GPS" (like my Cambridge model 20),
then no.

Is any nav software able to do either?

The nav software also needs the airspeed information, or heading
information (compass). Just a GPS input isn't enough to update wind info
while cruising.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I do not have any of these instruments but for my ASW20 I am putting a B50
in it
due to reliability issues with cambridge gear,at our field some praise some
curse
cambridge 50\50, I prefer 100% reliability and Borgelt gear seems to fit
this ideal
gary
"Romeo Delta" wrote in message
om...
I am soliciting opinions on which is the best way to go:

1. Cambridge Aero 302

-or-

2. Borgelt B50 system combined with a data logger: a. CAI 302A
b. Colibri
c. Volkslogger

I would appreciate comments with consideration to ease of
installation, ease of use, performance (to include comments about
timing and accuracy of indication vs. actual conditions as well as
one's liking of the respective vario's audio tones), compatability,
reliability, factory support, etc.--especially from anyone who has
experience flying with both systems.

Add'l info: I intend to couple either system with a PDA using
GlideNav II. Also, I live in the U.S.

Thanks in advance,

RD

I have a B50 and it is probably the best averager I
have ever flown with. It is reliable, acurate and very
easy to use. I have it linked to a PDA and a Volklogger
and the system as a whole is great. (It may also be
worth stating that I completely re-worked the tubing
when I bought the glider (there wasnt a problem Ian
but we re-did the whole panel!)). My only problem is
the 'push' noise. I hate the noise but to be fair it
leaves you in no doubt that you are at the wrong speed!

I have three mates who all run 302's in their glider.
Two have gone back to the dealer for repairs (one of
those has been back more than once) and the third person
is having problems. I dont want to slag off CAI instruments
because in general I think they are good but the 302
seems to have some issues.

Owain

At 09:36 26 May 2004, Goneill wrote:
I do not have any of these instruments but for my ASW20
I am putting a B50
in it
due to reliability issues with cambridge gear,at our
field some praise some
curse
cambridge 50\50, I prefer 100% reliability and Borgelt
gear seems to fit
this ideal
gary
'Romeo Delta' wrote in message
. com...
I am soliciting opinions on which is the best way
to go:

1. Cambridge Aero 302

-or-

2. Borgelt B50 system combined with a data logger:
a. CAI 302A

b. Colibri

c. Volkslogger

I would appreciate comments with consideration to
ease of
installation, ease of use, performance (to include
comments about
timing and accuracy of indication vs. actual conditions
as well as
one's liking of the respective vario's audio tones),
compatability,
reliability, factory support, etc.--especially from
anyone who has
experience flying with both systems.

Add'l info: I intend to couple either system with
a PDA using
GlideNav II. Also, I live in the U.S.

Thanks in advance,

RD

Owain Walters wrote:

...My only problem is the 'push' noise.
I hate the noise but to be fair it
leaves you in no doubt that you are at the wrong speed!

Dear Owain,

Can one program the B50 to emit audio only when in lift?
Is there a choice of tones available?

RD

(Romeo Delta) wrote in message . com...
I am soliciting opinions on which is the best way to go:

1. Cambridge Aero 302

-or-

2. Borgelt B50 system combined with a data logger: a. CAI 302A
b. Colibri
c. Volkslogger

I would appreciate comments with consideration to ease of
installation, ease of use, performance (to include comments about
timing and accuracy of indication vs. actual conditions as well as
one's liking of the respective vario's audio tones), compatability,
reliability, factory support, etc.--especially from anyone who has
experience flying with both systems.

Add'l info: I intend to couple either system with a PDA using
GlideNav II. Also, I live in the U.S.

Thanks in advance,

RD

I have been flying with 302 for over 2 years and recently added a B40
to my panel. My previous glider had a Cambridge MNAV. I have had no
reliability problems with the 302. I did have a problem with the unit
being delivered with a bad recorder seal but that was fixed on my
schedule. I also lost a contest day because of a problem with the
download utility. That was promptly fixed by Cambridge.

The 302 indicator response, when set for 2.3 sec, is very similar to
the B40. It is a little hard to correlate the reading though because
of the unsusual +/- 180 scale on the 302. Initially I didn't like the
way the 302 responded but after half a season I found that my tripple
probe had been delivered with one passage almost completely blocked.
I also found that my static lines were kinking when the canopy was
closed. When I sorted out those problems I find the 302 indicator and
audio easy to fly and similar to the B40. I much prefer the 302 audio
to the B40, perhaps because of all the years I flew with the MNAV.

The recorder of the 302 is hard to beat. I sample every 2 seconds and
have space for lots of flights. Unlike some recorders it never needs
erasing and the current flight will always be recorded.

I use the gear and airbrake warning system of the 302. It works as
advertised and saves installing a separate buzzer.

No problem with installation and, as someone else mentioned, you have
the choice of electronic or probe TE compensation.


Andy

(Andy Durbin) wrote in message om...

I have had no reliability problems with the 302.


Correction - I had 2 temperature probe failures. The first during
initial installation and the second after a few flights. The 302 will
not boot up with a failed temperature probe connected. It will
operate if the failed probe is disconnected.

Both replaced under warranty but a pain to have to replace them.


Andy

Sorry to say - but I've had bad luck with my 302 which was plagued from =
the beginning with the "bad seal" problem. This has been compounded by =
a bit of "musical chairs" as to who owns the company and warranty =
responsibility.

Also the "fully integrated" concept is a 2 edged sword. It fits in a =
neat little hole in the panel for sure - but when it's broken in flight =
(or needs to go for repair) you are without anything - no vario, no =
averager, no logger, no gps souce. In short :"zip"

The only thing I really trust is my winter mechanical!

Good luck

Roy.

RD,

I would be delighted to find I am wrong but the 302A
we are using gives no indication of outputting a wind
calculation in its interaction with a variety of PDA
programmes that my partner has tried with it (althout
SeeYou Mobile seems to calculate its own circling drift
wind when attached to the 302A). Also he has corresponded
with Paul Remde (US agent for Cambridge and GN11 as
you will know) about this subject and I am sure he
would have been able to tell us if this was wrong.
I had a look at the 302A manual and it doesn't say
it calculates winds - but the 302 manual also has no
mention of wind calculation which it does do.

The 302 variometer calculates vector winds and not
circling drift wind. Take away the pneumatic inputs
and it has no way of doing this - even if the computer
hardware that allows the 302 to do this isn't removed
in the process of turning it into a 302A - which I
suspect it will be.

John Galloway

At 21:54 26 May 2004, Romeo Delta wrote:
John Galloway wrote:

...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached
to a 302A.

Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean
to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate
winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

Can anyone verify this?

RD

RD: If you choose to go with the B50 (a very good instrument), I can
offer a B50 plus Volkslogger system at 75% of current price. This
system was removed from my glider which was sold sans instruments.
Both units are in perfect operation. The Volkslogger is the new
connector type. Email me direct. I can send photos if needed.
Manuals are provided.

Steve Koerner
Mesa AZ