Update on Minden tradegy

Am I missing something here? If I were caught above a cloud layer, I
would go to into a spin before trying a "benign spiral". A spin is a
controlled maneuver where a spiral seems more likely to get out of
control.

Flight handbook reads: "Intentional spins are prohibited"

Ian

clay thomas wrote:

Am I missing something here? If I were caught above a cloud layer, I
would go to into a spin before trying a "benign spiral". A spin is a
controlled maneuver where a spiral seems more likely to get out of
control.

You are missing that many gliders won't stay in the spin but rather go
into a spiral after a few turns.

Stefan

You would be surprised how fast a föhn gap can close
- easily within a minute.

You can descend about 12000 feet per minute in a decent
modern glider. However, if you are more than 12000
feet above the cloud layer, or don’t notice the gap
closing immediately, your stuffed.

However, if you are content to duffer around going
nowhere and not climbing too high you will probably
be able to avoid ever getting caught above cloud.
But if you want to fly long tasks in the wave you will
occasionally need to fly over 8/8 cloud. Fact.

Mike



At 16:48 02 November 2004, Stefan wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

If you do enough cross country wave flying you will,
sooner of later, get trapped above cloud.

I do not agree. Know the weather. Allow yourself enough
time to build
experience. Keep sharp on the development of the weather.
Never, never,
never fly above a lenticularis. Keep your föhn gap
in sight. Be sure
your glider can penetrate against the wind. And if
in doubt, don't go.
But you knew all this before.

If you insist that getting trapped by cloud can't be
avoided, then, by
all means, install at least a needle and get some training
on it. You
simply can't control a slippery glass glider in cloud
without a gyro.

Stefan

Mike Hessington wrote:

But if you want to fly long tasks in the wave you will
occasionally need to fly over 8/8 cloud. Fact.

This could be argued, but I'm not going to do so. As I said in an
earlier post: If you are willing to put yourself in that situation, then
by all means install needle and ball. There is no way to bring a
slippery glider safely down without, and there is no substitute. All
those GPS gizmos are nice, but far too slow.

And, while we are at it, be sure thre is still some VMC left below the
cloud deck, and there is a reachable landing spot. After all, waves tend
to form over mountains. But then, this may be a question of temperament.
I've heard that there are even people who enjoy night flying in a light
single.

Stefan

I was surprised to find in a local club a beautifully equiped
glider (actually, several), none of which had any IMC instruments.
I would expect at least a small T&B in each one.

Panel space was an issue, and I suppose there is some current draw.
And I'd expect it might be hard to find an A&P (mechamic) to install
one on a switch

I've had a gyro failure in IMC at night in a power plane and
the T&B definitely saved my life. I guess this is why
I'm really a fan of them, but perhaps I'm a bit biased.

Is a T&B really that rare in gliders? When I go to Minden some
day, am I niave to assume the commercially rented gliders
there will have a T&B?

In article ,
Stefan wrote:
Mike Hessington wrote:

But if you want to fly long tasks in the wave you will
occasionally need to fly over 8/8 cloud. Fact.

This could be argued, but I'm not going to do so. As I said in an
earlier post: If you are willing to put yourself in that situation, then
by all means install needle and ball. There is no way to bring a
slippery glider safely down without, and there is no substitute. All
those GPS gizmos are nice, but far too slow.
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

If you are in such a situation and have not even a T&B installed (as Edward
points out, a $100-200 item), you're just plain stupid. Fact.


--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Mike Hessington" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...
You would be surprised how fast a föhn gap can close
- easily within a minute.

You can descend about 12000 feet per minute in a decent
modern glider. However, if you are more than 12000
feet above the cloud layer, or don't notice the gap
closing immediately, your stuffed.

However, if you are content to duffer around going
nowhere and not climbing too high you will probably
be able to avoid ever getting caught above cloud.
But if you want to fly long tasks in the wave you will
occasionally need to fly over 8/8 cloud. Fact.

Mike



At 16:48 02 November 2004, Stefan wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

If you do enough cross country wave flying you will,
sooner of later, get trapped above cloud.

I do not agree. Know the weather. Allow yourself enough
time to build
experience. Keep sharp on the development of the weather.
Never, never,
never fly above a lenticularis. Keep your föhn gap
in sight. Be sure
your glider can penetrate against the wind. And if
in doubt, don't go.
But you knew all this before.

If you insist that getting trapped by cloud can't be
avoided, then, by
all means, install at least a needle and get some training
on it. You
simply can't control a slippery glass glider in cloud
without a gyro.

Stefan