2 aircraft cleared onto the same runway at the same time

Morgans wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote

Never been to OSH eh? You get lined up six at a time.


I have never seen that. They do pull someone onto the runway in pairs, as
soon as the departing plane releases brakes. They line you up on left and
right sides of the runway, and alternate departing left, then right.

This was on 18; I don't what they do with the IFR departures on 9/27.

That's my recollection, too. I don't remember ever seeing 6 at a time except for
the airshow performers.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. com...

"Tom Fleischman" k wrote
in
message

news:250320051938408267%bodhijunkoneeightyeightjun ...

Never been to OSH eh? You get lined up six at a time.

They do that at Arlington, too. It is one of the cool things about big
fly-ins.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 01:05:27 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote:


"Tom Fleischman" k wrote in
message
news:250320051938408267%bodhijunkoneeightyeightju ...
This was a new one for me.

I was IFR this afternoon out of HPN for short practice flight. I was in
sequence number two at the runway waiting for departure. As the tower
controller cleared the Cessna in front of me to position and hold, he
asked him his direction of flight. The Cessna pilot responded
"Northbound". The controller then instructed the Cessna to position 50
feet north on Rwy 34, and then he cleared me to position and hold
behind the Cessna. The Cessna was VFR. I questioned the clearance,
reminding him that there was an airplane on the runway in front of me.
He told me to position and hold behind the traffic. As I taxiied into
position, he cleared the Cessna for takeoff and as soon as the Cessna
broke ground he cleared me for takeoff. I was using a DP which includes
a turn to the left. The Cessna was instructed to turn out to the right.

I've been flying out of HPN since 1992 and I have never seen or heard
of anything like this being done there before, ever.

Did I miss something??

Never been to OSH eh? You get lined up six at a time.

Last time I took off on 18 at OSH (left side of centerline), I not
only passed the guy ahead of me, but I caught the next one just
beyond the end of the runway, made my left turn at 3000 and headed for
home.

Landing? Absolutely no place for a pilot who always flys a stabilized
pattern. I counted 25 between down wind, base and final. Of course
base and final are *short*. :-))

The 25 were all north of the control tower to the water tower, down
wind, base, and final.

That was the day the "Blue Bonanza" flew a regular pattern instead of
strictly adhering to the tower's instructions.

Blue Bonanza, put your gear down now... Blue Bonanza put your gear
down.... Blue Bonanza, turn base now.... Blue Bonanza turn base
NOW!... Blue...Bonanza...Turn...BASE... NOW...
Awhhhhh...Don't go clearrrr to the lake.

(I wish I had that one on tape)

He did, down wind to the lake, base and then final all the way from
the lake with IFR traffic coming in on the VOR 27.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote in message
...

That was the day the "Blue Bonanza" flew a regular pattern instead of
strictly adhering to the tower's instructions.

Blue Bonanza, put your gear down now... Blue Bonanza put your gear
down.... Blue Bonanza, turn base now.... Blue Bonanza turn base
NOW!... Blue...Bonanza...Turn...BASE... NOW...
Awhhhhh...Don't go clearrrr to the lake.


Winnebago or Michigan?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Roger" wrote in message
...

That was the day the "Blue Bonanza" flew a regular pattern instead of
strictly adhering to the tower's instructions.

Blue Bonanza, put your gear down now... Blue Bonanza put your gear
down.... Blue Bonanza, turn base now.... Blue Bonanza turn base
NOW!... Blue...Bonanza...Turn...BASE... NOW...
Awhhhhh...Don't go clearrrr to the lake.


Winnebago or Michigan?


Huron

In article
250320051938408267%bodhijunkoneeightyeightjunkatm ,
Tom Fleischman k wrote:

This was a new one for me.

I was IFR this afternoon out of HPN for short practice flight. I was in
sequence number two at the runway waiting for departure. As the tower
controller cleared the Cessna in front of me to position and hold, he
asked him his direction of flight. The Cessna pilot responded
"Northbound". The controller then instructed the Cessna to position 50
feet north on Rwy 34, and then he cleared me to position and hold
behind the Cessna. The Cessna was VFR. I questioned the clearance,
reminding him that there was an airplane on the runway in front of me.
He told me to position and hold behind the traffic. As I taxiied into
position, he cleared the Cessna for takeoff and as soon as the Cessna
broke ground he cleared me for takeoff. I was using a DP which includes
a turn to the left. The Cessna was instructed to turn out to the right.

I've been flying out of HPN since 1992 and I have never seen or heard
of anything like this being done there before, ever.

Did I miss something??

Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say for
sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is VFR.

Pretty sure it will only work for VFR VFR or VFR IFR. You need a
release from NY approach for the IFR departure and until the first one
is gone the second one would be tying up the runway which is something
they wouldn't like.

Another trick that can be employed where the runways and wind conditions
allow (like Bridgeport on a calm or light wind day). You are number 3
for departure on runway 24 and they have 3 people on final. Basically
you sit there and watch the hobbs tick over. The tower won't suggest it
but if you're comfortable with the wind for 29 you ask for a departure
on that runway. It does 2 nice things, 1 it gets you on your way sooner
and 2, there's one less departure for him to sequence along with the
incomings.

It helps to have intersections for both runways in more or less the same
place though.

Roy Smith wrote:

In article
250320051938408267%bodhijunkoneeightyeightjunkatm ,
Tom Fleischman k wrote:


This was a new one for me.

I was IFR this afternoon out of HPN for short practice flight. I was in
sequence number two at the runway waiting for departure. As the tower
controller cleared the Cessna in front of me to position and hold, he
asked him his direction of flight. The Cessna pilot responded
"Northbound". The controller then instructed the Cessna to position 50
feet north on Rwy 34, and then he cleared me to position and hold
behind the Cessna. The Cessna was VFR. I questioned the clearance,
reminding him that there was an airplane on the runway in front of me.
He told me to position and hold behind the traffic. As I taxiied into
position, he cleared the Cessna for takeoff and as soon as the Cessna
broke ground he cleared me for takeoff. I was using a DP which includes
a turn to the left. The Cessna was instructed to turn out to the right.

I've been flying out of HPN since 1992 and I have never seen or heard
of anything like this being done there before, ever.

Did I miss something??


Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say for
sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is VFR.

Roy Smith wrote:




Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say for
sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is VFR.

IFR or VFR is not relavant.

On 3/25/2005 10:42 PM, Newps wrote the following:


Roy Smith wrote:




Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say
for sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is
VFR.


IFR or VFR is not relavant.

Separation requirements make the crowding-onto-the-runway exercise unnecessary
if both flights are IFR, as the local controller would have plenty of time to
taxi the second IFR guy onto the runway before the second flight could be
released anyway.

Mitty wrote:




IFR or VFR is not relavant.


Separation requirements make the crowding-onto-the-runway exercise
unnecessary if both flights are IFR, as the local controller would have
plenty of time to taxi the second IFR guy onto the runway before the
second flight could be released anyway.

You need 3000 feet between two single engine aircraft for your runway
separation and then 15 degrees divergence for your IFR separation.