emergency chute

Don Johnstone wrote:
http://www.joe-ks.com/Multi_Media/HarrierEjection.htm

So, did he get reprimanded for hovering that close to a beach crowded
with people?

In my book, the MB ejection seat and Irvin chute are a winning combination.

http://www.soaridaho.com/Family_Pict...e/Cat_Club.jpg

Wayne
(Harold Wayne Paul)
HP-14 N990 "6F"




"Don Johnstone" wrote in
message ...
I look at one of the most sucessful canopies there
is and think to myself, OK that works I want that one.
In my case it is the same canopy that is pressed into
the headbox of every MB ejector seat, an Irvin conical,
an identical canopy to the one in my pack. I am sure
that other canopies are just as good but to my way
of thinking, as I never intend to test it I will go
with something that will save my life even though I
am stupid enough not to get any training in it's use.
How do I know the canopy works, take a look at this.

http://www.joe-ks.com/Multi_Media/HarrierEjection.htm

The pilot was a tad unlucky, he broke his ankle when
he landed on his aircraft. I know that the actions
of the seat contribute but just look at the rate of
descent when the seat clears the cockpit. The seat
was actually outside it's required sucess envelope
but still the canopy deployed and saved the pilots
life.

No it was an air display at Lowestoft, I was there
when it happened. The crowd were impressed.

At 22:30 07 April 2005, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote:
http://www.joe-ks.com/Multi_Media/HarrierEjection.htm

So, did he get reprimanded for hovering that close
to a beach crowded
with people?

I think we are getting off the point here. I accept
that a square chute gives a descent speed of less than
the 18-22fps of a conical chute but the square chute
requires training.
If we compare the number of bailouts to the number
of flights undertaken in gliders we come up with a
very small statisical chance of ever having to resort
to using them.
If every glider pilot was trained using a square chute,
bearing in mind the age and fitness of all pilots are
we able to say that the chances of injury would be
reduced. I suspect not, in fact the chances of accidental
injury could rise dramitically. Every jump carries
the chance of injury, not jumping does not carry that
risk.
The question is therefore, given the unlikehood of
needing to abandon the glider is it sensible to undergo
that training? Remember that if only 1 in 4 people
are injured so 3 in four abandon and land with no injury
at all. If all glider pilots trained then the number
of injuries caused by parachute descents can only rise,
more jumps more injuries. Statistcally the chances
of injury are much less if we only jump the once ie
when we have to undergoing training could be a case
where the cure is worse than the disease.

The original question was, should we use round or square
chutes. The answer is simple, unless you feel the need
to parachute jump the square is not a sensible option.
Given that many people only ever take one ride in a
glider and may have to use a parachute then round is
the only sensible answer. As having two types of parachute
available presents the opportunity of someone wearing
the wrong one there really is no choice.
Sorry if your business is parachute training.


At 21:00 08 April 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jack wrote:

Michael wrote:

My informal survey suggests that about a

quarter of those who make emergency
bailouts on round parachutes go to
the hospital afterwards....

It's your choice to accept an emergency
parachute that has a high probability of

putting you in the hospital if you use it.

One in four is no kind of 'probability' at all, let
alone a high one.

I'd be much more interested in seeing even an informal
analysis of
unsuccessful attempts to bail out.

I think this is the bigger problem. Those that don't
get out of the
glider usually die. Once most pilots have Roeger hooks
on their gliders
and the muscle strength to lift themselves out of the
cockpit easily,
then it might be worthwhile trying to minimize the
landing injuries.

Even better is to avoid the collision in the first
place. The Europeans
now have an additional choice beyond 'see and avoid':
the 'Flight Alarm'
device from www.flarm.com. Over 450 of these devices
have been
delivered, and 2000 more are scheduled for delivery
this year.

However, if a couple of jumps appeal to a pilot, it
sounds like learning
to use a square reserve would be enjoyable and, in
addition, provide
some slight additional safety for soaring.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I'm one of those glider pilots who switched air sports after 5000
skydives and you will never catch me with a round chute in my pilot
rig.

I don't know where Don got his info that square chutes require that the
person be in a stable position, but that's absolutely, 100% false.
Every skydiver I know uses square reserves precisely because they open
faster and more reliably than round reserves, regardless of attitude or
body position.

I obviously recommend square emergency chutes to pilots but only if
they take the time to at least visit a skydiving training center and
sit in the simulator with an instructor. Even better, make a tandem
jump or two -- it's fun and they let you fly the chute, all the way to
landing (they will provide "power steering").

I use a Rigging Innovations "Aviator" P-124, which has a ram-air
(square) chute designed for airmen who may have no prior jump
experience. The web page for the product is he

http://www.rigginginnovations.com/products/aviator.html

Ted Wagner
Chandler, AZ
304CZ "2NO"

Square canopy will open as fast as the round. Square canopies are safer
then the round; they decent slower and you can flare them while
landing. You can control them better, they glide quite a bit, they will
penetrate into the wind. You can fly them into a clear of obstacles
area, fly away from power lines, rivers, lakes and such. However, I
would recommend that a person who is planning on using a square canopy
get some training. I would recommend that potential user of a square
rig will do a tandem jump and 1 or 2 static line jumps. Landing square
canopy downwind might be painful...not knowing how to fly it...well,
there is a set of brake lines that need to be released. You need to
know how to slow down, when to slow down, when to go to full
flight...if you take a static line class you will learn all that
stuff...is it worth it? You bet...it is worth every single penny and
some more and that experience will stay with you for rest of your
flying days. Square are safer...what makes me qualified to say that?
Besides being a pilot, power (every imaginable rating) glider
commercial, I am also a static line instructor and FAA parachute
rigger. There are a few manufacturers, one on them is Para-Phernalia,
and they have a systems with square emergency canopies. If you are in
South Africa there is manufacturer under the name PISA, which
manufactures a very good square canopy Tempo. Get yourself larger one,
for example Tempo 250. It is rated under TSO C23C- 254 lbs. max.
suspended weight. Hope this will help.

Ted,

Thanks for the response. My local rigger suggested a square, but only
if I was trained. I think it's important to remember that glider pilots
will bail out under not the best of circumstances, may take a while to
get oriented after the chute opens, and may even be partially
incapacitated by trauma resulting from a collision. Assuming you may
not be able to steer, which canopy would be better for a untrained,
hapless skydiver?


OC

Still use the squre...as long as you are able to pull the handle you
will be O'K. In a case of square canopies there is a set of brake
lines...if you don't release them your forward speed is only about
1-1.5 MPH and descent speed is 12 feet per second as compare with
rounds of 17 feet per second. In addition, if you don't release the
brake lines the square canopy will turn into the wind by itself. So,
even as you are referring to not ideal circumstances your squre will
take you back to the ground with much higher degree of safety.

wrote:

Still use the squre...as long as you are able to pull the handle you
will be O'K. In a case of square canopies there is a set of brake
lines...if you don't release them your forward speed is only about
1-1.5 MPH and descent speed is 12 feet per second as compare with
rounds of 17 feet per second.

Can't you just get a bigger round canopy to come down slower?


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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

How does a square know which way the wind is blowing?

I'll buy the rest of the argument for a square reserve (having a few
jumps, both static and freefall, under old military rounds), but I have
a hard time understanding how a free falling object can orient itself
with the wind - unless it is big enough (tall enough) to be affected by
wind shear.

Explanation, please?

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