HYPOXIA

On 12/10/20 6:55 PM, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs

Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'


Well put, Uli.

I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.

Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.

On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.

--
Dan
5J

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 11:09:16 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:

Well put, Uli.

I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.

Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.

On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.

--
Dan
5J

Hi Dan - my MH system came with a harness that is used to secure an O2 cylinder to the back of an airplane seat. The O2 cylinder in my Calif is where it belongs and I most likely will not use said harness. I'll bring it to Moriarty in June '21, if you want it.

Uli
'AS'

On 12/11/20 12:48 PM, AS wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 11:09:16 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:

Well put, Uli.

I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.

Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.

On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.

--
Dan
5J

Hi Dan - my MH system came with a harness that is used to secure an O2 cylinder to the back of an airplane seat. The O2 cylinder in my Calif is where it belongs and I most likely will not use said harness. I'll bring it to Moriarty in June '21, if you want it.

Uli
'AS'


Yes, thanks!

--
Dan
5J

Being a flat lander I start my Mountain High EDS unit at 5,000msl which is usually below field elevation out west. I just sent my O2D1 unit and regulator to MH for its bi-annual winter checkup and refurb. Cheap insurance for a critical flight system IMHO.

Did you know that these units alarm if there is no O2 flow (you stop breathing or the tank is empty). You should get one.

Soooooo, did you know that MH sells refurbished (1st generation) O2D1 and O2D2 units at about 1/3 off of the price of a 2nd generation* new unit? There are even some of the original D1A units that come up for sale at almost 60% off of new. I don't believe that MH sells refurb units to make ends meet. I think they do this as a company policy to save pilot's lives. You should get one. My $0.02.

See https://www.mhoxygen.com/350-eds-closeout/

Enjoy,
John OHM

* Anyone know what the difference is between the 1st and 2nd generation units besides the layout of the controls and more colorful graphics? Thanks.

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs
Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'

A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.

My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!

Mike

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 1:37:09 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs
Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'
A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.

My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!

Mike

You should consider taking a blood thinner. Aspirin is one possibility and no prescription is required.

Tom

On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 11:08:52 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 1:37:09 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs
Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'
A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.

My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!

Mike
You should consider taking a blood thinner. Aspirin is one possibility and no prescription is required.

Tom
Tom:

I was put on blood thinners immediately by my doctor and because of my genetic predisposition to clotting these are now necessary to maintain my medical for flying. it's been four years and no problems since.

I should note that the genetic condition that got me here is shared by about 15% of people of European ancestry - almost certainly a bunch of pilots out there have the same condition that puts them in a higher probability of blood clots. My doctor notes that the condition is typically symptomless in males and problems usually only surface after the age of 60 and are often triggered by other factors.

My genetic scan also showed a couple of other broken genes - I am unable to metabolize some opioids and anesthetics. I haven't discovered why cilantro tastes soapy (my wife loves it) - apparently another genetic oddball.

Mike

Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 Ã* 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écritÂ*:
Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
Boggs

I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind� (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
Take care!
1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/u...icle-proof.pdf

Hi, There is a typo in link 1.
Please read
http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY_SSA_OSTIV.pdf
Season greetings!

wrote on 12/11/2020 2:36 AM:
Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 à 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écrit*:
Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
Boggs

I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind” (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
Take care!
1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/u...icle-proof.pdf

For me, the advent of low cost oximeters was the wake-up call. Before then, I followed the FAA
requirements, typically turning on the oxygen at 12,000'; after I got one (20 years ago?), I
realized I need to turn the oxygen on at 10,000'. A few years ago, I noticed Cheynes-Stokes
breathing beginning above 8000', so 8000' is now when I turn it on.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1