Best Place to Learn to Fly?

Gregg,

I totally agree with paragraphs 1 and 2, I think you lost your way in 3.
For day VFR pilots, and that's what students are until they start working on
night flying, the only instruments you need are a tacho, altimeter, airspeed
indicator, and a ball. If you have enough time in a machine later, you
don't even need most of those.

To me, most of the stuff inside the cockpit of a 152 is distraction from
learning to feel and fly the machine. You don't learn to drive by staring
at the tacho and speedometer. You look out the window, hear the engine, and
check your speedo every once in a while. Flying ought to be that simple in
the early stages.

Shawn
"gregg" wrote in message
...
ShawnD2112 wrote:


If I had to do it all over again, I'd learn in a Cub or a Taylorcraft at
a
little farm strip in the middle of nowhere, at least until time for my
QXC, then I'd move into a 152 with all the kit and learn how to talk to
people.

Hi Shawn,

I am in the middle of getting my taildragger endorsement - in a 1944 J-3
Cub. This baby was built for the Army and has the birdcage for the back
seat - great visibility. I find it outrageous fun. I got my PPL with 152's
and moved to Warriors after that. But this...so much more fun, more
challenging, in it's own way.

Doing this makes me wonder, at times, if students would be better off
starting out in something like a J-3. I think learning TD's makes me a
much
better pilot..because it's a J-3 with a narrower envelope than even a 152
or a Warrior; because TD flying takes "feel" - especially since you can't
always see what few instruments you have with a CFI in front...and what
few
you have don't include things like Turn and Bank and Artificial Horizons
or
vert speed, etc. so, for example, your eyes have to be on the horizon, in
turns.

All that's a benefit, as I say, but it might extend time to solo out, and
these days people like to progress quickly. So starting students out in
TD's might not be best overall. It might add too many complications at the
start. But oftentimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

ShawnD2112 wrote:

Gregg,

I totally agree with paragraphs 1 and 2, I think you lost your way in 3.
For day VFR pilots, and that's what students are until they start working
on night flying, the only instruments you need are a tacho, altimeter,
airspeed
indicator, and a ball. If you have enough time in a machine later, you
don't even need most of those.

To me, most of the stuff inside the cockpit of a 152 is distraction from
learning to feel and fly the machine. You don't learn to drive by staring
at the tacho and speedometer. You look out the window, hear the engine,
and
check your speedo every once in a while. Flying ought to be that simple
in the early stages.

Shawn
"gregg" wrote in message
...
ShawnD2112 wrote:


If I had to do it all over again, I'd learn in a Cub or a Taylorcraft at
a
little farm strip in the middle of nowhere, at least until time for my
QXC, then I'd move into a 152 with all the kit and learn how to talk to
people.

Hi Shawn,

I am in the middle of getting my taildragger endorsement - in a 1944 J-3
Cub. This baby was built for the Army and has the birdcage for the back
seat - great visibility. I find it outrageous fun. I got my PPL with
152's and moved to Warriors after that. But this...so much more fun, more
challenging, in it's own way.

Doing this makes me wonder, at times, if students would be better off
starting out in something like a J-3. I think learning TD's makes me a
much
better pilot..because it's a J-3 with a narrower envelope than even a 152
or a Warrior; because TD flying takes "feel" - especially since you can't
always see what few instruments you have with a CFI in front...and what
few
you have don't include things like Turn and Bank and Artificial Horizons
or
vert speed, etc. so, for example, your eyes have to be on the horizon, in
turns.

All that's a benefit, as I say, but it might extend time to solo out, and
these days people like to progress quickly. So starting students out in
TD's might not be best overall. It might add too many complications at
the start. But oftentimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

Shawn,

"lost my way"? I view it more as not having a finished opinion, and seeing
pluses and minuses to the notion. Paragraphs one and two are sort of
pluses; paragraph 3 are some possible minuses. And there are probably other
considerations I haven't even thought of.

Also, I'm freely mixing the TD aspects of this with the "fewer instruments"
aspects, as well as performance differences between the two types. More a
stream of consciousness, than anything else.

cheers,


--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message ups.com...
Southern California.


50K a year and So. Cal does not mix...

In article . com,
"Ben Hallert" wrote:

Southern California. Weather has a huge effect on how often you can
fly. I trained at SMO Santa Monica and was able to fly almost every
day. Now I live in Oregon, and there are nowhere near as many
opportunities.

SoCal all the way. Plus, you get to learn in a busy airspace that'll
prepare you to fly almost anywhere. It's a great learning environment.


Or somewhere in the San Joaquin Valley or lower Sierra foothills, like
Fresno, Sacramento, Stockton, or further north or south of those.

Maybe not quite as good weather, but pretty darn good. Probably
significantly lower cost. Increasingly good job opportunities these
days.

And easy access to both San Francisco and SoCal area attractions (via
either wings or wheels) when you want them -- plus Yosemite, Tahoe,
Carmel, the Delta, the Sierra, Shasta, etc.

Or Reno area: more remote from some of these attractions, but surely
cheaper, and steadily becoming a more interesting place.

But I have no idea where the best flight training options (instructors,
FBOs) would be found in any of those regions.

I live in upstate NY, and while you can't fly every day, the weather isn't
terrible, it is inexpensive (relative to So. Calif.) and there are
interesting places to fly to close by (but not as many as So Calif.). There
is a club where I live (I'm not a member) that costs $350 to join, $25 a
month dues, and has five airplanes from a Cherokee140 at $50/hr wet, to a
Dakota at $85. The instructor is $22/hr.

On the other hand, I just spent four days in Albequerque, and the weather
there is sweet! Blue skys all the time, you have a hard time finding a
cloud. I actually heard a forcast where they said that there might be a few
clouds on Thursday. Not solid overcast like we get here, a few clouds.

Brad


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi folks,
If you want to learn to fly and have half a year or more to take off
and live anywhere in the USA, where would you go to learn to fly?

I ask this because I have the opportunity in 2006 to live anywhere
(preferably in the US) to fulfill a dream I've had since I was 5. I am
25 years old now and am self-employed and therefore can live anywhere
for the time being on a moderate income of around 50K.

So, if I could focus all of my time and energy on flying lessons, where
would you go? Alaska? Seattle area?

I am just interested in a PPL, not commercial, but I want to learn from
the best. I also prefer small town airports to big metros.

So, lets hear it!

Brad Salai wrote:

I live in upstate NY, and while you can't fly every day, the weather isn't
terrible, it is inexpensive (relative to So. Calif.) and there are
interesting places to fly to close by (but not as many as So Calif.). There
is a club where I live (I'm not a member) that costs $350 to join, $25 a
month dues, and has five airplanes from a Cherokee140 at $50/hr wet, to a
Dakota at $85. The instructor is $22/hr.

On the other hand, I just spent four days in Albequerque, and the weather
there is sweet! Blue skys all the time, you have a hard time finding a
cloud. I actually heard a forcast where they said that there might be a few
clouds on Thursday. Not solid overcast like we get here, a few clouds.

We call that "clear" in PA! :-)


Matt

On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:30:57 GMT, "Brad Salai"
wrote:

On the other hand, I just spent four days in Albequerque, and the weather
there is sweet! Blue skys all the time, you have a hard time finding a
cloud. I actually heard a forcast where they said that there might be a few
clouds on Thursday. Not solid overcast like we get here, a few clouds.

When I used to visit my father, who worked at the airplane boneyard at
Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson AZ, I would see the fighter jets scramble
every time a cloud came over. They were HUNGRY to fly MCI, if only for
a moment.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi folks,
If you want to learn to fly and have half a year or more to take off
and live anywhere in the USA, where would you go to learn to fly?

I ask this because I have the opportunity in 2006 to live anywhere
(preferably in the US) to fulfill a dream I've had since I was 5. I am
25 years old now and am self-employed and therefore can live anywhere
for the time being on a moderate income of around 50K.

If you were trying to cram the instruction into a month, it'd be important
to live somewhere that has good weather almost all the time. But if you have
a few months and a very flexible schedule, you might consider living
somewhere that has more interesting weather (the Northeast, for example), so
you can encounter a variety of weather conditions during your training.
Similarly, if you prefer to learn at a small airport, you might still
consider one that's not far from complex airspace and large airports, so you
can gain familiarity with both kinds of environments. Somewhere near
mountains might also be good if you'd like to include training in mountain
flying.

--Gary

On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:54:40 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

somewhere that has more interesting weather (the Northeast, for example), so
you can encounter a variety of weather conditions during your training.

Just as the poster from Oregon worried that you don't get enough radio
practice if you learn in the boonies, the wx is certainly a factor for
someone who is going to be doing his flying in Britain. The weather in
AZ or SOCAL is not much preparation for that.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

That's a very good, point, Dan. Hell, I didn't know you could fly in the
rain until I moved here. Didn't really understand what showers were or that
you could fly through or around them. Totally opened up my flying when I
moved here!

This whole discussion just proves that point that the PPL is just a license
to learn because there is simply so much that can't be covered during
training but that is very relevant to flying. Personally, I felt too
inexperienced to actually have a ticket when I got it, but my instructor and
examiner obviously thought otherwise. They were right, as it turned out.

Shawn
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:54:40 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

somewhere that has more interesting weather (the Northeast, for example),
so
you can encounter a variety of weather conditions during your training.

Just as the poster from Oregon worried that you don't get enough radio
practice if you learn in the boonies, the wx is certainly a factor for
someone who is going to be doing his flying in Britain. The weather in
AZ or SOCAL is not much preparation for that.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com