Do I need DME or ADF in an IFR-certified GPS panel?

Matt,

My guess is that you'll
find more GPS approaches that require DME than require ADF.


but how many would there be where the GPS could not legally replace the
DME? Those are only the very few where the DME is not in the database.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:

but how many would there be where the GPS could not legally replace the
DME? Those are only the very few where the DME is not in the database.

It's my understanding that the DME box in the plane measures distance from a
VOR. All VORs should be in the database.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Matt,


My guess is that you'll
find more GPS approaches that require DME than require ADF.



but how many would there be where the GPS could not legally replace the
DME? Those are only the very few where the DME is not in the database.


There are no GPS appraoches that require DME period. It's not a
matter of "replacing" it.

The only issue is using GPS to substitute for DME on NON-GPS
approaches. You can do that if you have the fix AND this isn't
the non-GPS required alternate.

No Spam wrote:
Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

I would say that it depends on how important it is to you to have a
ground based alternative to GPS in case it becomes unusable (equipment
failure, RAIM, whatever) and what ground based alternatives are
available where you fly. In much of the US, there's little point in
having an ADF. In more remote places...

Fred.

On 6/7/05 20:43, "Fred G. Black" wrote:

No Spam wrote:
Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

I would say that it depends on how important it is to you to have a
ground based alternative to GPS in case it becomes unusable (equipment
failure, RAIM, whatever) and what ground based alternatives are
available where you fly. In much of the US, there's little point in
having an ADF. In more remote places...

Fred.

Thanks, Fred,

I think the 430/530/480 incorporate VOR/ILS, so the loss of the GPS
constellation shouldn't leave one "lost", should it? I realize I'd be
limited to enroute/terminal operations that only require VOR/ILS should the
GPS system take a hike.

- Don
Everybody needs a rubber chicken.

No Spam wrote:

I think the 430/530/480 incorporate VOR/ILS, so the loss of the GPS
constellation shouldn't leave one "lost", should it? I realize I'd be
limited to enroute/terminal operations that only require VOR/ILS should the
GPS system take a hike.

Here's another thought about keeping your ADF.

There are a considerable number of GPS approaches that are overlays of NDB
approaches. Normally, you would use the improved percision of the GPS and
fly it that way. Now the 430/530 requires that your database be current
in order to legally fly an approach (at least with the AFMS that I have).
Now say you are out of town when your database expires and you need to do
such an approach. With the ADF you could legally do the approach and
"monitor" it with the GPS. No ADF and you would need to choose some other
approach in order to stay legal.


--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

On 6/7/05 23:28, "Frank Stutzman" wrote:

No Spam wrote:

I think the 430/530/480 incorporate VOR/ILS, so the loss of the GPS
constellation shouldn't leave one "lost", should it? I realize I'd be
limited to enroute/terminal operations that only require VOR/ILS should the
GPS system take a hike.

Here's another thought about keeping your ADF.

There are a considerable number of GPS approaches that are overlays of NDB
approaches. Normally, you would use the improved percision of the GPS and
fly it that way. Now the 430/530 requires that your database be current
in order to legally fly an approach (at least with the AFMS that I have).
Now say you are out of town when your database expires and you need to do
such an approach. With the ADF you could legally do the approach and
"monitor" it with the GPS. No ADF and you would need to choose some other
approach in order to stay legal.


Good idea, Frank. Good reason to use the laptop update via USB from Jeppesen
- assuming you have a way to get your laptop online.

Which begs another question - how soon before a (28-day cycle?) database
expires is the next cycle available online from Jeppesen?

- Don
The hardest thing about flying is the ground.
- Charles Kingsford-Smith

Frank Stutzman wrote:


There are a considerable number of GPS approaches that are overlays of NDB
approaches. Normally, you would use the improved percision of the GPS and
fly it that way. Now the 430/530 requires that your database be current
in order to legally fly an approach (at least with the AFMS that I have).

My 480 FMS only requires me to know the approach info is right.
Of course the real answer is if you're going to fly IFR, you're going
to have to keep your NAVDATA (charts, GPS databases, etc... up to date).

Ron Natalie wrote:
Frank Stutzman wrote:


There are a considerable number of GPS approaches that are overlays of NDB
approaches. Normally, you would use the improved percision of the GPS and
fly it that way. Now the 430/530 requires that your database be current
in order to legally fly an approach (at least with the AFMS that I have).

My 480 FMS only requires me to know the approach info is right.
Of course the real answer is if you're going to fly IFR, you're going
to have to keep your NAVDATA (charts, GPS databases, etc... up to date).

Yup, a big advantage of the 480 over the 430/530.

Has anyone ever attempted to get a FMS approved for a 430/530 that has
verbage like the 480 so that you could still do an approach with an
expired DB?

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:20:34 -0500, No Spam wrote:

Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

TIA,

- Don
History does not long entrust the care of freedom
to the weak or the timid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower


Without an ADF receiver, I would not be able to obtain the local altimeter
setting at my home airport, and take advantage of lower minimums available
with that information.

I have no idea how many other airports there are where the local altimeter
is available ONLY via the ADF, but that is the case at KEPM.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)