Experience Question

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I think some self-imposed limits
are
in order. Yes, I would take family or friends up immediately after getting
the
ticket, IF it's a short ride, in good weather near your home field. If
you're
talking about going places though, I would be concerned about an
inexperienced
pilot placing unneeded performance pressure on himself. If you offer to
fly
your family to the inlaws' house, 200nm away, and they accept - then by
the
time they get belted in they have their minds set on getting there. This
is
the time when the less experienced pilot could make judgement errors,
particularly regarding weather.

That kind of judgment error can be made by any pilot, any time.
Furthermore, perhaps I'm an anomaly (though I don't think so), but I made
just those kinds of decisions when I was a fairly new pilot myself. In one
case, we were at the airport practically ready to depart, with my friend and
his friend. The weather was great, and we'd planned a flight north to
Vancouver BC from Seattle. But his friend showed up with some kind of sinus
congestion. Having made the mistake of flying once during my training with
a cold, I knew what the potential harm might be, and scrubbed the flight.
The entire day's plan was a bust.

Performance pressure exists no matter how extensive your flight experience.
If anything, the more experienced pilot is expected to be able to do more.
At least a brand new pilot can use the more easily-understood (by non-flying
public) excuse of "I'm just not comfortable with that". Coming from an
experienced pilot, the passengers may not be so understanding. Even
children understand that when you are new to something, it's harder to do.

If performance pressure is the only reason you can think of for a new pilot
to avoid taking his children flying, local flight or no, I remain utterly
unconvinced.

Pete

Fred Choate wrote:
Hello All....

This may sound silly, but I would like to hear some opinions on a matter
presented to me this evening.

I recently got my ticket. I started 5 years ago, and due to certain
circumstances, I had to take 4 1/2 years off, then I picked up and did 10
more hours of training to prep for the checkride. My total hours to date
are 63.8 with 26.7 of those being solo time.

Okay, that being said, my In-Laws made a comment to me tonight about flying
with my children. Actually, they put it in the context of "do you really
think it is a good idea to fly with your children until you get more
hours....." followed by "....Larry (one of the In-Laws) didn't fly with
family members until he had 300 hours....".

I didn't even respond. My question to you folks is simply, how long did you
all wait before you decided it was safe to fly with your family?
Myself.....my kids were the first passengers I took up, and I felt
completely safe, prepared, and at ease with them in the aircraft with me.

I took friends and family up right away, within probably a week or so,
I'd have to check my log to say for sure as that was 27 years ago. My
instructor, who was also the DE who gave me the flight ride, said that
his basic test wasn't the PTS, but was the grandchildren test. If he
didn't trust a candidate to take up his grandkids on the next flight
after the flight ride, then they didn't pass.

I figured afterwards that if he felt I was safe with his grandkids, then
I was safe with my own family. :-)

Matt

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

Your friend makes an excellent point. It is true that new pilots, having
less experience, are at greater risk for certain kinds of accidents. The
same thing is true of new drivers, of course.

otoh - new drivers have not received much training nor have they been
tested to any meaningful standard. Pilots have (or should have).

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

In article , Greg Farris
wrote:

I'm sure my opinion is unpopular here, but when people ask me that question,
I
often say they should expect a pilot to have 200 hours before they plan to
fly
with him, for anything more than a local jaunt in fair weather.

I'm Ok with that attitude - the key point is to fly within the pilot's
capabilities. How much risk is there in a local flight with nice
benign CAVU weather?

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

In a previous article, "Fred Choate" said:
with my children. Actually, they put it in the context of "do you really
think it is a good idea to fly with your children until you get more

"The FAA says that I'm a safe pilot. What are your qualifications to
state otherwise?"

I took my wife and kids up for a short flight the day I passed my check
ride. I took my wife on an international flight at night to an airport
I'd never been two weeks later.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I don't have a sense of humour, merely an over-exaggerated sense
of revenge.
-- Stephen Harris

Paul Tomblin wrote:
I took my wife and kids up for a short flight the day I passed my check
ride. I took my wife on an international flight at night to an airport
I'd never been two weeks later.


You're a brave man. I remember my first solo nighttime cross country flight: I
hadn't seen any lights for a while so I assumed I was over the countryside just
to the west of Wilmington, NC. I called into ILM approach and reported my
position as about 20 miles west of ILM. They gave me a squawk code and then
confirmed my actual position as 15 miles EAST of the airport... out over the
Atlantic Ocean... heading for Burmuda!

Oops....

I guess you can say I learned about flying from that. As I said before, God
grants a special dispensation to newbies and morons. No harm was done... and
nobody was there to witness it except me. Thank you, Lord.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Peter Duniho wrote:


One of the worst things about new pilots is that they
don't have enough confidence in the skills that they actually DO have.

IMO, being humble about one's piloting skills is not a detriment. Having
too much confidence in the skills one doesn't have is arguably much worse.

--
Peter
























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In a previous article, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
I took my wife and kids up for a short flight the day I passed my check
ride. I took my wife on an international flight at night to an airport
I'd never been two weeks later.


You're a brave man. I remember my first solo nighttime cross country flight: I

As a former orienteering competitor (came 4th in the North American
championships once), I have no problems with navigation with all this
electronic stuff backing up my map and compass skills.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Get with the program, jeffrey. No one is 'wrong' on Usenet. They are
either 100% totally correct, or they are 'a lying, scum sucking weasel.'
There is no in-between. -- Garrett Johnson

"Fred Choate" wrote in message
...
Hello All....

This may sound silly, but I would like to hear some opinions on a matter
presented to me this evening.

I recently got my ticket. I started 5 years ago, and due to certain
circumstances, I had to take 4 1/2 years off, then I picked up and did 10
more hours of training to prep for the checkride. My total hours to date
are 63.8 with 26.7 of those being solo time.

Okay, that being said, my In-Laws made a comment to me tonight about
flying with my children. Actually, they put it in the context of "do you
really think it is a good idea to fly with your children until you get
more hours....." followed by "....Larry (one of the In-Laws) didn't fly
with family members until he had 300 hours....".

I didn't even respond. My question to you folks is simply, how long did
you all wait before you decided it was safe to fly with your family?
Myself.....my kids were the first passengers I took up, and I felt
completely safe, prepared, and at ease with them in the aircraft with me.

Comments?

Fred



I would just tell them that you think it is safe or that you think that the
risk is reasonable.. There is little point in trying to back up your
position with facts, which really aren't on your side anyway. Reality is
that you are fairly inexperienced and you won't be able to overcome that
objection. However, inexperience doesn't mean high risk of a fatal
accident. If the flight is from one paved airport to another in VFR
weather, I doubt that there is much difference in risk between 63hrs and
1000hrs, you can either make the flight safely or you can't. You just
demonstrated on the checkride that you can make such flights in reasonable
safety.

When asked if flying with me is safe, I just answer "No, its not safe".

Mike
MU-2

Nurse Schnerd:

How is is that you were 35 miles from where you thought you were? Is your
airplane equipped with GPS, or other guidance? Aren't the VORs supposed
to give a hint?

About God's special dispensation for "morons," there does seem to be some
truth to this, given the most recent dozen or so crashes over the past few
days were by experienced pilots.