Texas Taildraggers

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

Quite a bit more expensive, aren't they?

The cheapest flyable ones will definitely cost you more than a TT 150. The
fabric is not a problem if the paint was properly chosen and applied, but you
never know if that's the case.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson writes:

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:
Quite a bit more expensive, aren't they?

The cheapest flyable ones will definitely cost you more than a TT
150. The fabric is not a problem if the paint was properly chosen and
applied, but you never know if that's the case.

I'm buying my first airplane, so bear with me. Where I live, hangar
space is tough to come by (SF Bay area). I was under the impression
that it's not a good idea to keep a fabric airplane outside, so I
figured an all-metal TT would work better.

Also, I've never flown a Maule. Is anybody in NorCal willing to give
me a ride if I pay for gas?

Ari.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to

....fish and you'll be hearing about non-renewable resources for the
rest of your life.

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

I was under the impression
that it's not a good idea to keep a fabric airplane outside, so I
figured an all-metal TT would work better.

Aircraft used to be covered with linen or cotton. That would be painted with
"dope" to keep air from passing through the weave. Both of these fabrics will
last a long time if hangared and rot if left outside. The rot time varies
depending on ambient weather conditions. I personally know of one J-3 Piper
still flying with an immaculate 30-year-old cotton skin. Been hangared since the
cover job.

Modern fabric-covered aircraft use synthetics such as Ceconite (AKA Polyfiber)
or Razorback. Ceconite will deteriorate when exposed to UV rays, so the aircraft
are carefully painted to prevent this. Two methods work. With both, you paint
the aircraft with primer coats of nitrate and butyrate dope. You can either
follow this with color coats of butyrate dope, or use color coats of
polyurethane. An aircraft covered in Ceconite and painted with either of these
methods can be kept outside. If the color coats are butyrate dope, the paint
must be "rejuvenated" about every 10 years, but this supposedly is true even if
the aircraft is hangared.

The problem with Maules is that, prior to 1996, the factory used enamel as the
color coat over a dope primer. Parts of the aircraft are fiberglass, some parts
are metal, and some are fabric. Dope doesn't last on bare metal and cracks on
fiberglass. Enamel shrinks and produces cracks and other problems in the fabric.
Most have been recovered, but who knows (I know of one '95 model that hasn't
been). The only real cure is to strip and recover and repaint the aircraft,
though some people have had success sanding the finish coat off and repainting.

Anyway. If you get a fabric aircraft that has a Ceconite or Polyfiber skin with
polyurethane applied over a dope base coat, you shouldn't have problems with
the fabric.

Corrosion is a different issue, but metal aircraft also have problems with this.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:
: Anyway. If you get a fabric aircraft that has a Ceconite or Polyfiber skin with
: polyurethane applied over a dope base coat, you shouldn't have problems with
: the fabric.

: Corrosion is a different issue, but metal aircraft also have problems with this.

Just out of curiosity, if one were to learn the art of recovering so as to do
it oneself, what would a reasonable expense be to recover a bird like that? It seems
that so long as you know how to work on it, fabric planes aren't a big deal. In a lot
of ways, they're better than metal, since you can reasonable take the lid off and look
inside for corrosion.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

George Patterson wrote:

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:


Quite a bit more expensive, aren't they?


The cheapest flyable ones will definitely cost you more than a TT 150.
The fabric is not a problem if the paint was properly chosen and
applied, but you never know if that's the case.

If the Aviation Consumer reviews of Maule planes are any indication,
odss are good that it wasn't painted properly. That has been
consistently cited as a problem with Maules.

wrote:

Just out of curiosity, if one were to learn the art of recovering so as to do
it oneself, what would a reasonable expense be to recover a bird like that?

I spoke with a fellow who redid his Champ. IIRC, his cost was a bit over $2,000.
A lot depends on whether you use bolts of fabric and glue the stuff directly to
the frame or buy pre-sewn envelopes. Maule glues the fabric onto the frame.

Maule Flight will charge you $12,000 for a strip and recover.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

xyzzy wrote:

If the Aviation Consumer reviews of Maule planes are any indication,
odss are good that it wasn't painted properly. That has been
consistently cited as a problem with Maules.

Any Maule older than 1996 will not have been painted properly and any Maule made
in 1997 or '98 may not have been (Belford had odd ideas on the matter and the
factory used up old stocks of paint after he died in '95). The only question is
whether an older Maule has been repainted and, if so, how good that job was.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:

: I spoke with a fellow who redid his Champ. IIRC, his cost was a bit over $2,000.
: A lot depends on whether you use bolts of fabric and glue the stuff directly to
: the frame or buy pre-sewn envelopes. Maule glues the fabric onto the frame.

: Maule Flight will charge you $12,000 for a strip and recover.

... but then it must be painted as well, right Depending on how much of *that*
you do yourself, it could cost considerably more than the recovering.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

George Patterson writes:

xyzzy wrote:
If the Aviation Consumer reviews of Maule planes are any indication,
odss are good that it wasn't painted properly. That has been
consistently cited as a problem with Maules.

Any Maule older than 1996 will not have been painted properly and any
Maule made in 1997 or '98 may not have been (Belford had odd ideas on
the matter and the factory used up old stocks of paint after he died
in '95). The only question is whether an older Maule has been
repainted and, if so, how good that job was.

I was going to spend = $30k on a taildragger. Looking around, I don't
think a Maule of any vintage, repainted or not, would fit that budget,
unless I wanted to buy a project. A partnership could work, if I'd be
able to find a share for sale locally.

Ari.

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.

George Patterson wrote:
Maule Flight will charge you $12,000 for a strip and recover.

Is that without paint?

By the way, I have a '96 "we have them on sale" MX7180a model (actually
built in '95). Not the good paint (still doing it against the hangar
wall). Not the really bad (auto)paint. IOTW, it chips off slowly.

I love the damn thing if only I had the good paint